MechWarrior: Living Legends

As you may recall, MWLL did a survey back last year asking the community which Vulture/Mad dog Art style they prefered - Original CBT or the Microsoft MW4 (Click here for Link to old Survey). (http://www.mechlivinglegends.net/component/option,com_smf/Itemid,36/topic,566.0/)


Since the Votes were neck and neck, we asked the community  if they would like to see a Hybrid version. A very positive response came back to us giving us the go ahead on creating it.

Now for the first time, we would like to present to you our Hybrid Vulture!


MWLL would like to know what you think of the new Vulture Design. Please rate out of 5 how good you think the New Hybrid Design is and feel free to post any comments about it as well.

Looks like balls

golden balls or diamond balls?

Crystal balls.

well it looks  nice, but get rid of the nose canons and change the arms that does not look too good something is off. i rate this about 3 out of 5
other than that i would say it looks very good.

make the arms like the cbt version but only 'buffer' if thats the word to use.

I prefer the 2 firsts models ^^

I've Voted 3 out of 5, The arm cannons are made Hybrid, I thought people wonted  Mad Dog arms because there iconic in a way. Also, the arms seem to be raised up in the air too much(not in a very relaxed position). Besides the arm cannons and arms, theres these odd gaps on the mech. One is in between the right window of the cockpit and the right missile pack(might be the view). Another is on top of the nose mount that is hooked up to the medium pulse laser barrels. The small gap for the barrels is OK, but not the gap that is between the nose mount and the center torso.

The Left and right torsos look awesome! The left/right torsos are missing a gap that shows up where they are connected to the center torso(Mad Dog Trait). I believe this gap was to try and show the left/right torsos were separately made(it can be lived without)but wouldn't a Separately made part be easier to fix or replace?

The Cut in the center torso what is it's purpose? Will only textures tell what it's for? Isn't the turret post to be the Mad Dogs Square mounted medium lasers? Maybe the Turret can be the Cut Some How? I think the turret should be on this mech. It is also iconic to MW4 players and it will show that the Vulture is in there. The Center leg connector is good, but that block thats on top is awfully sticking out and doesn't seem like it's connected to the center of the mech.

Finally, I got to post about the legs. The legs are not the original Mad Cat looking like legs that the Mad Dog and Vulture(that is in MW4 gameplay). The Vulture in the MW4 Intro legs are on this mech. These legs are identical to a 90TON jump jetting Mad Cat MKII. The reason for a Mech to have the same legs as another is to Lower costs of producing mechs. These legs are probably not as armored or big as the MCMKII legs because there made for a 60TON Mech. The real problem with these legs is that the Vulture is not a jump jetting mech. A jump jetting mech would have legs that are built to with stand a landing after falling from jump jet useage. Also a little heat protection from the jets. Why would vulture need these more costly legs?

There also might be more Problems but I can't really say sense theres only a front view of the mech, no back view, and it's hard to see the top of the mech in the front view. The other pictures of the Vulture and the Mad Dog Are slightly slanted so you can see the top.

http://img211.imageshack.us/img211/1441/madcathb1.jpg
http://img211.imageshack.us/img211/4811/tempxmadcatmk2ex7.jpg
http://www.anthonyonline.net/stuff/cg/vulture02.jpg
 
Sorry if I was a little too harsh. :D

To be honest it looks more like a med mech. The angled arms aren't working for me. I like the style of toe of the second one but i like the angles of the toe better on the first one. (more angled and spread apart) I do like the underslung nose cannon but I like how the mw4 vulture has that flare on the nose for the cannon. (just narrow the middle part a bit) I also assume this is a wip because the CT isn't very detailed. One last thing, the long barrels on the arms also look a bit odd. I would suggest either a snubbed nose barrel or something along the lines of this Thor's right arm... (http://img181.imageshack.us/img181/2493/sumc1fa9.jpg)

Anyway, those are my crits. My rating is 2.8, it looks good but it still could go a long way.

First of all, I have to say I really like the new arms. They look like the perfect hybrid between the two versions to me. I never liked the original arms of the vulture, they looked lame and boring. I never liked the mw4 vulture arms, either. They looked to stiff and wannabe futuristic. But your hybrid version really kicks ass, it looks futuristic and kickass while adhering the traits of the original look somehow. Impressive!
The only thing I have to criticise about the arms is the same Arch Dreary already said: The posture of the arms is to high, they don't look good this way. I would like to see them sunken like the arms in the original version, I don't think keeping the arms raised in the middle between the two versions will look any good. I think those sunken, relaxed arms are an important visual trait of the vulture.

The center torso looks too bulky in my opinion, the vulture is a rather slender mech and a bulky center torso does not do this justice. I never liked the bulkiness of the mw4 version since it let's the vulture look like a heavy assault mech. But, what I liked in the mw4 variant were the additional details they engraved in the center torso, this is something worth to keep.
This also applies to the left and right torso, of course: They've got 4 rocket hole columns while the original vulture has only 3. This results in broader side torso. They have to be more slender, too. Otherwise it would not look well-proportioned.

The left and right torso (rocket pods) look really good, they are a good tradeoff between the two variants. Just two things: First, there's this block above the rocket holes. It's to far behind, it should be resized to be 50% longer (meaning 50% more ahead). Hope I could make myself comprehensible somehow ^^'
Second, I also think there should be a gap between the rocket pods and the center torso to emphasize the modularity of clan omni technology.

I like the base frame to which the legs are connected, looks great. But, I don't like the legs. Please keep the original legs of the vulture. Like Arch Dreary said, they look to heavy for the vulture. The original legs look sleek and slender, that's how it has to be. The vulture is a fast and mobile mech, providing firepower from medium to long range. Heavy, bulky legs won't fit this traits.

Despite of all this criticism, I want to point out how much I appreciate your concern and efforts to satisfy both, battletech and mechwarrior fans. You're on the right way, keep up the good work!

sincerely,
mike

No it doesn't work really, it compramises whats good about both of the first designs.

It gets a resound "meh" from me.  I like the arms, general torso look, and the lower legs (though they could be more in scale with the rest.  The chin gun, hips, and feet do not look good as a whole on this Mech.

I'd have to say "meh" as well, although I said it sucks at first.

Upon taking some time to look at it, I have a few suggestions.

1) The arms need to go. Sorry, that simple. I agree with what others are saying, a slightly beefed up version of the CBT Mad Dog's arms would be perfect.

2) I always did like the chin turret on the MW4 Vulture, and I do like how it's incorporated in the the torso to keep the look of both mechs, so you hit the nail on the head there IMO.

3) One of the things about Clan Omnimechs is they were designed to have interchangeable parts, and not just their weapons. Ever realize how the Hellbringer (Loki) and Summoner (Thor) have the exact same legs? The same is true for the Timberwolf and Mad Dog. You simply need to use the Mad Dog's legs in this case. There's no compromising here IMO.

4) Back to the arms: I think the current length of the upper arm -> lower arm section is good, the only thing that needs is to be moved to an angle roughly half of what is on the Mad Dog compared to the Vulture (take an exact middle ground basically). The wider torso simply calls for the arms to be closer to the body, as they are now in the hybrid, the angle they are at just needs work.

5) For the arms, something similar to what is on there now may work. I would flip the arms 90 degrees inward (top towards the torso) along the forward axis (towards camera). Then shrink the aft portion of the lower arms to make the laser barrels closer in size to that portion. They're lasers remember, they don't need room for ammunition bins or anything like that. A heat sink or two would be a good thing to add to those areas.


I still feel the CBT Mad Dog is the only way to go though :P

I don´t like it. Not because it's an ugly model, it's just not a Vulture. You see it on the battlefield and think: What the hell is this?!

The CBT Version is my fav.

I like it! Looks very nice and is a good hybrid of both versions! Keep up the good work. :)

Word! :)

I'd rather stick to the original models, I think the fans would like it more.

I think the angle may have something to do with it. I absolutly LOVED it the first time I saw it, and I couldn't understand why I didn't care as much for it in this picture until I opened the model itself.

Here is a bit of simple coloring job I did while bored (I am NOT A MODELLER, TEXTURE ARTIST, or anything along those lines...i was bored and installed max.)

(http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh192/MWLL_Keeper/keeperscoloredvulture.jpg)

Also, I  half expect to be told to pull this model, as it's nothing official at all. Just the same model from a (I think better) angle.

I'd say, turn on the light, MWLLKeeper! ;D

eee... i only can say "meh"... Something wrong is with this Hybrid Version... I was expectingm something something like a beefed up CBT Version? Maybe classic CBT version beefed up whith nose turret? Don't know...

BTW. I have a question, does this versions of Mad-Dog have diffrences in statistics? You know, speed, weapons, armor? Maybe you should add posibility to select between CBT, MW4 and Hybrid version? Similar thing will be in Black Mesa Source mod for Half-Life 2 players will be able to select between Colt M4A1 from High Definition pack and Mp-5 from classic Half-Life? ( if player will select for example CBT version he will see every Mad-Dog in this version... :) )

I like it. The old CBT version looked alot meaner than the MW4 version, though I always thought the MW4 looked more practical (however I was also very partial to the MW4 version because of the chin turret and the opening video to that game). At the angle of the arms seems a little wierd, but other than that I thinks its a very good model. But don't get rid of the nose cannon, if you want to make a hybrid that will have to stay. But yeah, I'd say change the angle of those arms slightly and widen the angle between the toes. Otherwise its good, I don't think anyone would see it and not think its a Vulture (Mad Dog)

I also think you will never be able to make everyone happy because both versions are so popular with the fans.

The biggest problem is that it looks short.

I quite like the design and think overall it is a great job that is just in need of a little tweeking.

I like the torso, missile racks, and cockpit - they look fantastic.

The arms like others have mentioned look like they need their stance relaxed. Maybe even try changing the orientation of the gun pods... so that they are horizontal and have a closer layout to the CBT Vulture.

The legs overall look good I think, maybe just make the armor on them a little more curvy, and i think the feet should be made to closer resemble the CBT Vulture's feet. Also the new Vultures stance looks wrong. The CBT one looks tall and sort of majestic... this one seems quite squat... and reminds me of a Bushwacker. If you could change the angle the knee is bent at, maybe increase it so as to make the Mech taller I think it would do a lot. Mechs can share the exact same legs but they don't weigh the same, so a lighter mech chassis would ride higher...

I love the nose cannon from MW4 but thinnk it is too wide and needs to be narrowed..

As I said overall the work is fantastic, and while we can all say things that we think need to be improved in our opinions, kudos to you for creating this - it is increadible work.

As a long standing BattleTech fan, anything other than the original classic model seems blasphemous to me. However, if the model used in the mod is destined to be something other than the classic model...let it not be this hybrid. As many are pointing out, something just feels "off" about it. Perhaps a more satisfying compromise would be to keep the classic style torso, give it the MW4 style arms, classic style legs that are perhaps beefed up (but please, keep the spurs, they're essential to this mech's look), and if you have to, throw the chin turret on, although I've always hated that absolutely useless addition. I can never forgive Microsoft for bastardizing such a good looking mech.

And yay for my first post!

It's not too bad but some serious meat needs to be added to the legs, especially the feet. Other than that for a hybrid pretty good.

I appreciate the effort you guys are putting into this game, and the care you're taking to make sure it's a community creation.

However, I don't like the legs.  I'm not an artist by any means, but those things jumped out at me.  The original rounded components not only look better, but IMO are more practical.  They're narrow, so they're harder to hit from the front, and rounded to better deflect fire.  When I think of ways to take less damage, large, flat surfaces facing my opponent, and sharp angles don't come to mind.

Only thing I would like to see tweaked, give those arms just a little more bulk...so it doesnt appear one LRM volley or ER laser alpha, will wipe them out.

Heh, sorry I actually couldn't figure out how to change the background color in a render  ;D

As I said, I have no experience at all in 3ds Max.

Also, I wouuuuldn't worry about the vulture being short... it was made with a reference human model...and he comes up to...oh say it's ankles  ::) In fact, if you highlight the picture (sorry again about the lights) you can see the reference model.


Thanks everyone for the good comments coming now. I'm not sure how much more time the art team wants to invest in a single model at this point (after all, you can never make EVERYONE happy, and if you spend too much time trying you make no one happy   8) ) but everyone here appreciates constructive criticism, and they will do what they can.

I Like the Hybrid. I looks like it packs both punch and speed. Great work!

One little suggestion though......WIPE THAT SMIRK OFF HIS FACE...lol

keep the mw4 vulture body, minus the nose canon but keep the nose 'flare', beef up the cbt vulture arms and u got a winner, and everybody is happy. well at least 80% of us i would say

With a nose like that, the vulture could smoke while taking a shower  ;D

I like these. It's pretty good; the arm angle needs to be lowered somewhat and the legs absolutely must be CBT.

But wonderful nonetheless!

NO no !
 Keep the nose cannon. It adds a little spice to the meks effectiveness.

As for the arms....tweak um a ltad please.

Legs....heh...I like them.

LRM 20 bays = )

Love you guys !

I prefer the streamed like look of the CBT vulture.

because aerodynamics are critical in mech design...  ;)

I'm sure the nose with arms and legs will change some more before the final version. There wouldn't be a poll otherwise. I think that the reason so much attention is being payed to the Vulture is that it's such an iconic mech for the serries, and it's been done differently so many times it's hard to get a consensus that this is what it should look like. The important thing in my mind is that you need to be able to look at a mech and just know, this is a Vulture.

Didn't you read my thread in the dev section where I propose a "400m Mech sprint" game mode? :D

Will (my) Bushwacker be in it ... it has to ... its fast furious and [fumbling on the keytboard] burning hot! ;)

I like the original.  It looks unique like most of the Mechs originally did.  I remember seeing the second one in MW4 and wondering where the Vulture/Mad Dog was?  I would always be like, "oh yeah, that's it....why doesn't it look right?"   Doesn't look bad, just doesn't look like a Vulture.

All three look great but I'd keep the first one and the second or third if you wanted a variant.

I don't like the Hybrid at all. Not only because it's a "mixed up thingy", I also don't like the tip of the nose.

My favorite is the original one.
The MW4 Version is cool, for me it's part of MW history because I (almost) only know about the Mechwarrior Universe from the PC-Games (MW 1,2,3,4). (MW2 is still the best IMHO.)
Why not use both?



OT:
The modelling you guys are doing is astounding! I thank all you guys for reviving this great game. I have a very good feeling about this Project. It's made by people who know the Battletech universe.
:OT

Greets from Germany

Looks good sept the Nose gun I don't think Mad Dogs should have them (unless its the D configuration -the only cannon configuration that has guns in the nose.)

Remove the nose gun and I think it would look fine.

Or just go with the cannon look.

using both might be a good idea.maddog cbt version 60 tons
and the  mwllegends version as the vulture mark 2 65 tons tho if i remember correctly this might not tie in with your aimed timeline. what does the other guys here think.

There are no plans to include unofficial chassis in initial release, and I doubt the men in charge want them in subsequent add-ons either.

Personally, I like the arms as they are, but I'd have them mounted lower down and possibly inverted, then I'd go for the original Vulture legs mounted further back to keep the centre of gravity sensible.

I don't like the idea at all.  :(

sorry to who ever made this

due to trained eyes i can see how much work is in this model , even if majority is pinched from the older 2 mesh's
the work had to be done at some point didnt it, but there is still a good fresh amount of time spent on this guy

but i must say i think its horrid

the positioning of the arms and use of the mw4 legs make it look like a 50ton masakari

it just dosnt feel right to me

i think if the arms were repositioned to match the cbt it would look fine
as the arm design you have is beautiful its just positioned wrong

and the cbt legs are a must as many of us have said

personaly i have allways hated the chin turret, but would rather have it
than the mw4 legs, even mw4 had the timby's legs for game model


p.s.  id love to have a crack at this model myself see what kind of variations i could make

i think most ppl need to be opener to new ideas

1. the arms are great but a small tweak , but i can live whit them (like the others say )
2. legs... simply use cbt , im new here and in the mechuniverse but i can see that the cbt looks simply better

3. rocket pods should be longer to the ground (scretch them down )
4.turret is fine imo
5. torso should look longer now its to box- like

GOOD WORK
AVESOME

open you for new ideas
you have already over 15 other mechs 1to1 from the games
let one find new ways

and ah yea im new to the forums

I'd be all for new Mechs in the future.  However, we are all fans of the established base and many of us would like to see that base maintained versus what Microsoft did with MW4.

QFE. Classic BattleTech is a classic for a reason, and the mech models it had were good looking already.

I think one of the problems with MW4 is they desccribed the history of the clans, but not how or why the history of the tech evolved.  This is not to say I didn't like the game - personally I thought it was well thought out and better than previous incarnations - it just had flaws.

I think the CBT Vulture but with the MW4 Vultures missile pods/side torso would look good. never been a fan of the centre torso of the MW4 Vulture.

Hello All new here.

This is my favorite omnimech!
I like the cbt's lean/swift/lethal look.
I like the micro$oft's beefy/tough/brutal look.
Both or either one, but not a mix please.

In my opinion you can not combine these radically different concepts into one mech.
I just love how this is shaping up over here. And I have high hopes for MWLL. 

I would change the light weight guns on the amrs to auto cannons.Just to give it a chances at survival

I invoke the power of GBL!

I played MW2 when I was ten and loved the Mad Dog.  Honestly, I didn't know that the Vulture in MW4 was supposed to be the same mech.   >:(

Such as the Duan Gung, no doubt.

Battletech was pretty hit and miss. They had some good artists and some bad ones who couldn't even figure out that mech heads don't turn (Incubus and even the Victor are examples of that).

MMM..... mw2 + expansions best mech games to thus far
 mw3  great looking game.[graphics wise]  very Sim like but, lame story line Sp  game .legs blown of too fast etc ,no support
mw4 bad looking mechs all screwed up  overall just a bad game compared to  mw2 and 3
but yes i still play mw4 cause it has mechs.

I rather like the Hybrid design. Though, as far as legs are concerned, I think the old classic battletech ones with their sleek, smooth curves, are the best.

agree whit slith  ;D

I think it is important to keep the way the mw4 model's legs connect to the torso...

Firstly, it gets 3 stars from me.  Rip the nose guns off and leave the arm pods the same, but give it the angled arms from the original.  Why rip off the nose guns?  Because in the mech stats listed under "Factions" the mech only has 4 laser cannons, this model has 6.  The nose guns, I'm guessing, aren't cheap to build on this baby, so ditch them and keep the iconic look of the original, albeit, with the improved missile launchers.

That's my vote.

The real kicker is that for the most part thy are using cannon art for most of the units and for the Mad Dog thy have to "change it."

If one is using the cannon art why change one to a vertion that is not cannon?

yeah spot on TimoBlastem

that rendition of the cbt classis is .... i dont have the words

it just warms me on the inside looking at that awesome mech



i think we should have a new vote of cbt, vs mw4, vs hybrid

not again  :(

whit few tweaks and open minds this mech can made it in the game

True. A new vote wouldn't change a thing. What shall be different this time?
The Vulture is my most favorite mech of all, so I want it to be represented in the best possible way in this game. But a new vote would not do any good to this game and it's schedule.

People have to learn to be open minded. It's impossible for the MWLL Team to satisfy every opinion (and there are more opinions than people here ;)) if they really mean to release this game. One vote about this was really nice and courteous of the team. Now everyone should adhere to it's outcome, no discussion there.

The current level of satisfaction according to this thread's poll doesn't make that seem necessary. A significant majority is either happy with the Mech as it is or thinks minor adjustments might do it.

Looks fine. I would care more about the speed and load-out than the looks however.

:)

IMHO, i felt that CBT look weak.. however it is canon and thats what folks want to see.. When i started playing MW4 i was like ok.. Mad Dog II..  Heavier punch, upgraded weapons.. Comes from the Mad Dog heritage.  then I saw the Hybrid..  the Arms .. hmm.. too me it looked like someone just merged the two arms together.. but after reading through this thread I realize it is the Arm and Pod position that rankled me.. I think Keeper had it best it in his..  Maybe make the legs more CBT..(since we dont have a Madcat modeled (MWLL) to see its legs) but in the end..  It would be nice to keep CBT in mind.. but hey.. New Artists bring new flavor..  May I point out to One and all to look at the MWLL Kodiak that was built.  It looks closer to CBT then MW4 did but still it is not spot on.  However I feel that the the MWLL Kodaik has the fearsome look that has always brought to my mind.. much more so then CBT or MW4 (ESP MW4.. i thought they took the head of a Flat Nosed Mack Truck for the MW4 Model)

so in the end I gave it a fine because i like the what the modeler did with it and could very well live with it and consider it a Mad Dog III..  after all.. New mech designs are still hitting the books and this could be one of them.

In the end i say let the people decide and whether or not the CBT, MW4 or Hybrid is used I would still love to pilot it.

HA!

It's ONLY an angle change and a color scheme. To be honest guys, the angle you view a model at can drastically change it's look, and the original picture was taken more from a infantry view point. I'd say on this one, I'd just wait on it.

I still think it should have the same number of guns as the stock model that is proposed in the Factions Section.

2 ER Large Lasers + 2 ER Medium Lasers on the arms and 2 LRM-20s on the Torsos.  Unless the model changes what the loadout is in the Factions Section, then I don't see a reason to keep 6 cannons on a mech that only has 4.

Actually, the chin turret is an easy piece to add and remove, and we hope to add weapons dynamically (thus the chin gun could be a anti-infantry machine gun for a bit of personal protection).

The arms just don't look very natural to me.  The center, left, and right torso are fine don't change those.  The arms look you snap them off with one shot from a lbx autocannon 20.  I would also have to agree with some of the other posts the position of the arms isn't very relaxed.  I'd personally rather have the old mechwarrior 4 design but thats probably because thats what I expect a vulture to look like.  I would rate it 3 out of 5.

Aurora Paradox

Well, what wouldn't be blown of by a lbx ac 20? O_o'

And the 'old' mw4 design would rather be new, since it's a reissue of the actual old design ;)

I agree start a new poll and make the choices: CBT, MW4, or Hybrid.

Aurora Paradox

Curiously enough, a Vulture's arms.

Unless you roll a 12 on the crit, you can not blow them off with one shot even in Battletech where armour levels are much lower. If you use a scatter round, you won't blow anything off without a really lucky TAC.

I've always worked under the assumption that there's some really good armour here, though. There's a lot of things that don't look all that well protected in Battletech, not the least of which is the Thor's right arm, even though the thing is actually a beast on paper.

^Agreed.  The marauder should be clown to shreds if you think about it. Long skinny arms and legs.

I understand your point.  However mechs are supposed to be the ultimate weapons of destruction.  If mechs are that powerful than they should look powerful and not look like you could snap their arms off with one shot.

Aurora Paradox

Do you know that scene in Star Wars VI - Return of the Jedis, where those Imperial AT-ST Walkers rush through the forest of Endor and one gets smashed inbetween two trees? The Vulture in general to me seems a lot like that AT-ST scout walker and like it's almost screaming for special treatment like that, in particular the fragile CBT version.

Yes I am familiar with that scene.  Are you agreeing with me?

Aurora Paradox

To the extent that the CBT version of the Vulture looks totally unworthy of a heavy class Mech and that some of the concessions made in the Hybrid version just bring back some of those unworthy elements, among them the fragile look of arm-body-connection and the legs?
Yes, I tend do agree. It doesn't bother me though. As mentioned by others numerous times, much of the things in the BT universe don't make sense or were created with other things in mind than physics, real warfare requirements or even logic. I think the current hybrid is a good compromise between the two versions that were available initially.

I understand your point.  When they designed the mechs for battletech they never thought they would be made into a computer a game.  I would agree the hybrid version is acceptable for the time being.

Aurora Paradox

Adding components dynamically sounds rad.  Why not have different arm pods to snap on based on weapons then?  Basically, the vulture stripped down has flat torso panels and arms that end with clamps for the weapon pods.  You slap in a Large Pulse Laser on the arm and it puts in the CBT laser cannon, you put on an ER Large Laser and it puts in the hexagonal pod from a Timber Wolf.  Slap a Gauss Rifle on their and it puts on the arm from a Thor.

This would generate instant weapon recognition amongst players.

That would be a new concept for the mechwarrior game series however I like it.  As long as it doesn't turn every mech in the game into an omni mech.  I believe every mech has to have a certain role and making them too customizable would eliminate this.

Aurora Paradox

Sounds like it might work, after all there where the ballistic/missile/lazer weapones slots in MW4, all it would do is add an in game visualization on the individual mechs. I don't know how much more work that would be for the team though. Also it should only work on externally mounted devices (Vultures nose cannon, arms, e.t.c.) I think that (while yes it would be cool) it would be unessecary to have a similar process on internally mounted weapones (off the top of my head the 2 Mg's and Large Lazer on a Bushwacker). If it where done in such a way it would also make sure that non-omnimechs wouldn't appear as such (I have always had it in my head that the Arms other mounts  even on old Innersphere mechs (such as the Marauder, actually particularly in its case because of the dorsal mount) could be removed and replaced).

AT1 does that great.

It's simple, any hard mounted weapons (i.e. 95% of all IS mechs) would end up with an inability to drastically customize weapons on their mechs, much like MW4 made it, and some might even be static.  An Atlas can only place a single energy weapon on each arm, a single AC or Gauss Rifle on the right torso, and only 1 missile launcher per torso.  The Clans have the advantage in being able to load out their mechs with different weapons because of their use of omni pods.

An Atlas being equipped with the standard armament of 2 ER LL, 1 Gauss Rifle, 2 LRM-10s and an SRM-6 adds up to 44 tons of weapons.  I could also see a player equipping the same Atlas with 2 Medium Lasers, 1 Gauss Rifle, 2 LRM-20s and an SRM-2.  Or 2 ER PPCs, 1 LB-10X, and 3 LRM-10s, or 2 Large Pulse Lasers, an AC/20, and 3 SRM-6s.

The IS models would be stuck with the same numbers of guns, but be almost impossible to distinguish from one another, while the Clan mechs can equip whatever pods they want, but are easily identified.  The Clans have a greater advantage in load out, but suffer from recognition by their enemies, while the IS is pigeon-holed into the mech roles, but can dish out some nasty surprises.

Personally I think the Atlas with 2 Large Pulse, AC/20 and 3 SRM-6s is pretty brutal.

MW4 torso and legs are great, they give a more agressive and clanlike impression to me. Add the "spurs" of the origninal version though, they make the legs look more balanced.

In MW4 all large clan mechs have the same type arms, like a generic massproduced pod. Vulture, Loki, Thor, Madcat and Madcat mk2 all use the same. It's good for massproduction and makes it easy to equip many diffrent types of weapons since you have a big, boxlike shell to put them in.

However the iconic look of the maddog is lost with that generic pod. I like the original arms better, but put the barrels closer together, make them slightly bigger and make them look more robust. The original arms look too flimsy, the hybrid arms on the other hand look too powerful, like it's a laser based assaulter rather than a missile based support mech. They also look too bulky for the chassis, not like the other sleek clan designs.

IN SHORT:

The MW4:Merc torso and legs, but with a more robust, but still elegant, version of the CBT arms is perfect.

The hybrid Vulture looks pretty good guys (and ladies).  My recomendation is to use the classic Vulture's feet.  The feet on the MW4 and Hybrid unit currently look too small (much like the legs on the Masakari look a little small).  Also, please consider the MW:AOD Vulture Mk IV, which also looks like a brawler.

https://www.wizkidsgames.com/images/figures/Rotating/MWVG/MWVG_OC2.jpg

Keep up the great work!

Why not just have the Vulture MKI and MKII. that way everyone is happy.

p.s, i like the hybrid in anycase.

I like the original Vulture best, but at the same time I'd really hate to see the hybrid go to waste since it's very good.

It would be nice if there was a way to include both the hybrid and the original vulture. Perhaps have the hybrid as an alternate configuration?

I have been a fan of Battletech for a very long time, and have always been partial to the Mad Dog/Vulture. I have made the models of it, and I was disappointed by the arms in the previous mechwarrior games. The legs and torso dont bother me too much, but the gun modules were very out of place and didnt belong. I personally prefer the classic Vulture over the new one, but if it's either the new vulture or the hybrid, I prefer the hybrid due to the arms and gun modules being better than the Mechwarrior 4 ones. I speak for myself and three other friends who have looked at this site, as well. Thanks for noticing that people wanted change, by the way!
Keep up the great work!

I think the devs should override community input and use the Mw4 model :P

The Hybrid is nice...I guess but lose the chin turret and use the original feet. I like the new guns. But my vote would be to use the CBT model.

I'd give the hybrid a 3/5.It feels a little disproportioned - arms need to be a little closer the torso,lengthen the legs in relation to the torso,maybe make the arms a little smaller...

If it came to CBT or MW4,I'd go for MW4 because it's what I grew up on.I'm figuring most people here are basing their ideas of what a vulture 'is' on whichever version they came into contact first.We've all got our prejudices, and unfortunately when it comes to an entirely fictional 'mech there's no 'right' design,eh?

And we need spurs on this thing,damnit!

I still like the CBT better, but good job anyway.

I think the entire legs and feet of the CBT version should be kept, but i have to say i really like the new arms.  If it was my decision i would be tempted to make the arms interchangeable for different variants.

That would be a good compromise IMO.

Aurora Paradox

EDIT

Hhehehe i was confused. bravo on the good looking hybrid, i tend to lean against the pod version though.... it breaks a lot of lore, and made several authors mad when they used it for Mech4

I must be the only one that prefers the MW4 model :(

The overall design of the MW4 model just reminds me of the apache attack chopper, don't ask me why, I can't really explain it. 

Probably because it's squat, wide, and boxy with stubby winglets that are only useful as weapons mounts.

Yep, that's probably the best summary of the MW4 vulture I've ever heard.

Has there been any more development on the vulture recently?

No and there won't be either, at least not in the near future. The current poll situation suggests that a significant majority either likes it as it is or will learn to live with it. We'll rather finish the remaining vehicles than getting stuck on polishing a single one.

I do like the model more now that I looked at it for a while. Keep it and work on the other stuff instead. I think we can all get along with it! And maybe this can be some sort of MWLL branding on the mechs.

First impression is good, but further comparison to the originals is borderline.
What I liked: The new approach with the arms and quad lasers. The under-nose turret. The Arm joint, where arm meets torso. The legs. The feet texture.
What I didn't like: The rocketpods, the MW4 design looks more futuristic. Lack of texture mid-nose. Ankle looks unbelievably weak. Angle between front toes, more like the CBT. 

I'm a old die hard fan, I like the old type of Vulture. No under torso turret, like what u seen from the old MW3 game and in the cartoon of old Battletech. Was a bit off when MW4 came out with the new vulture, they tryed to update a old mech that already look good and failed.

I say with the new one looks cool, but make it a new mech in the med class as that what it looks like.

Ok i think it looks fine as a hybrid, it gives it its own mwll appeal and besides, it still has all the nasty weapons anyway, so people will still think twice about tangoing with it. and what is with people saying the mw4 looks too futuristic.......the whole BT universe is futuristic..thats the whole point

I think the problem with many designs that try to strike a balance is that they strike a balance in the wrong sense of the word. I think it would be better if the two designs weren't melded, but combined. What I mean by this is, avoid striking the balance between, lets say, the gunpod arm or a laser like gun arm, or an arch type foot or chicken type foot, and leave these individual components alone, but combine them with the other components. Leave the elements as they are and determine which is best of each. Maybe that design would work? For example, take the missile launcher pods of the mw2 mad dog/vulture and replace it with the mw4 one, but take the mw4 gun pod and replace it with the mw2 one, etc. That way, get the best of both worlds without sacrificing the individuality of each of the components.

hmm, that sounds like it might work too. either way is fine by me.

I say stick with the original one, or the new one.. The hybrid's arms just look wrong, there's no other 'Mech that has arms that look liek that at all..

I just have to put in my 2 cents. I agree with everyone else who is complaining about the legs/feet. The rest of the model is pretty nice by me, but those legs are a real dissapointment. They're way too stubby. Old Mad Dog or Mad Cat legs would be great.

Sorry if this has already been said, I didn't check the entire thread,

My only concern with this is that it has too many gun ports for the stock vulture...

2 Large pulse lasers
2 Medium Lasers
2 LRM 20

While I like the look of the new hybrid, I wonder what purpose the turret serves, or the extra barrels upon the arms. Either one or the other has to go IMO, otherwise it's just dead space there for decoration (nothing wrong with that btw, except this appears to be attempting to serve a more functional role).

I'm more of a fan of the CBT version over the MW4 one to be honest. I know it's sometimes anathema to mention here, but have you taken a look at the Mechassault model for the vulture? It's a little more stocky, but still retains the profile. Your current hybrid, while indeed a cool looking mech, looks more like a variant rather than the prime loadout.

Yea.. the legs look weird to me.

Make them look more like vulture legs.. like the first model :)

First I am far from a BT purest. I simply love the whole concept of Mech combat vehicles. Having said that I think that the new concept although straying from the MW4 and BT versions is much more mechanical sound. What I mean by that is that the way it is drawn looks like it would be more functional in an engineering sense. The first picture has the leg "spurs" that really would serve no purpose other than to give a bird-like look. Also the feet appear to be one piece and lack the pivots and joints needed to actually make them work. The arms deviate significantly from the traditional vulture but look okay. I guess I would prefer the "pod" look over the long barrel look unless the meck is packing ballistics. I would give the new design a 4 out of 5 but I am not a huge fan of the Vulture anyway. I do agree with the poster that said it looks like a much lighter mech than it is intended to.

Still the rendering is beautiful work and I can not wait to see the mech in game.....no matter what the final version looks like.

well I'm a little late to the game but I'm glad you went with the turrets and brought the missiles up a little. the only thing that looks a little off is the arms, they look like they need to be brought closer to the body, but that's just me. anyways, great job guys, cant wait for the release date!

i think its wonderful, and im looking forward to modeling some of the designs from this mod

im already familiar with the vulture from that perspective

(http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c303/elninjo69/Sep03692.jpg)

I'm a traditionalist, so I prefer the original.  It was a good reflection on how delicate the darn things were.  That being said, I can deal with the hybrid you guys came up with.  It looks close enough to the original. ;)  Fine 3d art for sure!  Can't even imagine how long it took to build the thing, so I ain't gonna be complainin!