MechWarrior: Living Legends

I've been meaning to post about this for more than six months, and I'm finally getting around to it.  I searched for related topics, and although some seem to touch on this subject, I didn't find any that directly addressed what I'd like to request.  That search wasn't exhaustive, so forgive me if I've missed a prior discussion on this topic.

Are there any plans to make data available to home cockpit builders like myself to drive gauges or external displays?  For example, IL-2 Sturmovik offers something that it calls "devicelink (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/49310655/m/7201027043)", and Flight Simulator offers something it calls "SimConnect (http://www.fsinsider.com/developers/Pages/AboutSimConnect.aspx)".  These are two-way interfaces that allow us to get data from the game and send control information to the game.  Really the only part of something like this that's important to me is the ability to read telemetry data from the game, because I can always program my controls to send keystrokes (or use DirectX buttons in programs that allow me to directly map them to game controls.)  Perhaps you already have some debugging facility yourselves that collects or displays this information.  (Some cockpits run totally on internally debugging tools created by developers for...debugging, so that's why I brought it up.)

If there are no plans, will you consider it?  I'd be happy to provide more information if that would be helpful in making a decision.

sorry man but i doubt it.  This isn't a standalone game.  If the code isn't there in crysis already, i doubt that they can code up the miracle that it would take to get all that cockpit equipment stuff working

The problem isn't as much making a decision - we'd love to support every single piece of equipment and every nerdy device that allows to intensify the experience - as it is knowing the limits.
Limits as far as 'human ressources' are concerned and also limits as far as our abilities and options to mess with the engine are concerned, because as Flyingdebris said, we're not creating this thing from scratch, we've got a platform from which we try to achieve the best results possible.

In other words: Sorry, but no, there won't be support for any external devices like this and not for extraordinary stuff like home cockpits either.
We've been discussing similar devices in the past and simply had to realise we have certain limits we just can't go beyond.

That's why I brought up the debug tools that have enabled this sort of thing with other games like F4 (where the tools were never created for this purpose).  You see, this isn't a request for specific device support so much as the ability to tap into a data stream that would look very much like debugging information:  heading, position, speed, etc.  I'm kind of assuming that you already have such a facility.

Anyway, I don't mean to push.  I can take no for an answer, but I just wanted to make sure that my request wasn't misunderstood because of my poor communication skills.  This is totally device agnostic or device independent.  The request is just about access to data.  If you already understood that, then I'll go back into my quiet corner and await the release of your mod.  If, on the other hand, it's just a matter of finite resources, then perhaps I could bring the skills necessary to enable it (or adapt some current facility for that purpose) even if that's at some indefinite point in the future.  I realize this has limited applicability for your target audience, so I thought I'd make that offer before throwing in the towel.

Have you heard of Glovepie?  I hear it's a program that can allow custom user inputs...

A guy managed to get a treadmill working for WoW for instance, and the Wii remote to work on all sorts of games.

It was originally written to program virtual reality gloves, though it has more features now.  Anyway, it's not topical.

What about multiple displays?  Is there any program or feature that would allow one to put the left/right/up/down views on secondary monitors?

Pretty sure that would require more than one camera in the actual game itself, or something to that effect.

With data stream taps, you wouldn't need to render out to multiple displays from the same engine. It would just require the datatapper to output to a program that would graphically interpret the data. As long as it's not really graphically intensive you could theoretically have some regular PCI cards to run multi display outputs with each screen and program dedicated to the data interpreter. It just depends on if we can make the data visible and whether or not we could get graphical interpreters.. Add a Quad Core in the mix and you could even set the affinities of the data interpreters to third and fourth cores since Crysis doesn't benefit that much from having all four.

For what it's worth to the discussion, I'm just interested in the raw data from my game client.

As far as we know, Crysis does not support that kind of data stream and we can't provide it either.
Not at this point, not for the initial release and most likely not in the future. As said earlier, we'd love to provide features like this, but we won't make any promises or even large assumptions like this for future features.

How is it not?  I know it can't solve your issue involving getting display readings and stuff properly set up in your cockpit, but it could probably handle the control aspect.

Although MWLL uses more than just mechs, so it'll definatly take some fine tuning on your part to get it to work universally with all the units in the game.

KorJax, I'm sorry.  When I re-read what I wrote, it's sounds terribly rude and dismissive.  I didn't mean to come across that way.  What I should have said was this...

GlovePIE is about input rather than output (and my topic is about output).  From that perspective, it's no different than a profiler for a game controller or a DirectX button press or a macro-scripting utility like AutoHotkey.  I'm sure VR glove owners and other GlovePIE users will have no problems using GlovePIE with MWLL, and nothing needs to be done with MWLL to make that possible.  In fact, GlovePIE enables VR glove users to use their gloves with software that doesn't directly support the gloves.  That's why it was created in the first place.

Virtual reality gloves are sort of the antithesis of cockpit building--at least from my perspective.  I create physical controls (buttons, switches, levers, etc.) to control all input to games on my computer.  A virtual reality glove makes all that superfluous since (in theory) it interacts with virtual controls--not physical controls.  Of course, when the game doesn't support those virtual controls, you have to get GlovePIE so that you can convert your movements into the key presses (or analog input via PPJoy) that a game does understand.

More importantly, it's not germane because it doesn't deal with the purpose of my post, which was to inquire about the possibility of accessing engine data.  I should have more carefully worded the subject of the thread to accord with the content, and that's my fault for not having been clearer.

Fair enough.  I was just pointing out that GlovePIE doesn't specifically revolve around using virtual gloves... you can script your own input functions for any device imaginable as far as I know.

I know where you're coming from, and that's why I asked about multiple displays.  I know that in MS Flight Sims, you can put different views on different monitors and even put the instrument panel on a separate monitor.  So if I were to build a simulator without the ability to access game outputs (which I'll never have because I'm not a programmer), I would use home-made or modified controllers for the inputs, but a lower secondary monitor for the instrument panel with the indicator lights, speedo, radio, etc.  This could all be attached to a chair or cockpit mock-up with the main exterior view projected on a large screen in front of the gamer.

I know this is a cop-out by sim building standards, but I think it's a good work-around to achieve more immersion while not requiring insane coding skillz and a large budget for real life instrumentation.  *shrug*

Having looked at the MOD-SDK and read the licensing overview from Crytek, I'd guess that the multiple displays (a la MSFS) route would require a commercial license and SDK.  In light of that, I think the only reasonable way of enabling secondary monitors for MWLL would be to enable a raw data feed and to write my own software to get the data, interpret it, and display it--with physical or virtual gauges and/or lights.  Even that, it appears, may not be possible with the MOD-SDK--and, even if it is, it's surely to be a low priority (if any) for the MWLL team since it will be of use to such a small audience.

Building a cockpit or gaming pod or sprucing up your computer-desk is a personal project, and it can be as elaborate or simple as you want it to be.  It's yours and there are no measures to live up to except those that come from you.  If you look at the various projects around on the web, you'll see a whole spectrum of projects.  Some people build amazing cockpits and spend very little money (building most things themselves) while others spend tons of money and don't appear to achieve the same results (but I'm sure they saved a lot of time).  Either way, it doesn't have to be expensive or require any programming skills.  Just my two cents.  :)

While it may be of small use to us as the developers, there's no telling what might happen after release. Especially if VirtualWorld wants to update their pods. We have to get the game done first and then we can think about things like that.

I'd say it's still a useful venture and if you know C++ you could probably find a way to tap into it. If you know flash or actionscript, the gauges to interpret the data probably wouldn't be that hard.

I remember going to Dave and Busters and sitting in the Pods.. Only bummer was how graphically aged the game looked. So I hope MWLL will be the graphic polish and gameplay to jumpstart the Mech Sims again. :)

As for my Work in progress. I picked up a copy of Crysis just to Play MWLL. I am working on my controls.

I am considering picking up a couple Saitek Evos the Pedals and the New Cyborg Keyboard.. Should give me a nice Mech Style Layout. I liked how the keyboad had the Side Function Buttons on either side so I can reach them from either stick.. Not quite to bolting up a cockpit but if this game turns out well I might be tempted.

http://www.saitekusa.com/usa/prod/evo.htm

http://www.saitekusa.com/usa/prod/rudder.htm

http://www.saitekusa.com/usa/prod/cykey.htm

I have played with mapping with Xpadder and Pie Glove with some of my old controllers.. Results are promising.. Pie glove is a little tricky but definately lets you tweek alot.
I would hope I could do it inside MWLL but if I have to do it out side I will. I hope the developers have time to make most movements and stuff at least on keys so i can map them outside the game.

My goal is to get Torso Twist and Jump Jets on the Pedals.
Left Stick for Movement left right forward back
Right Stick for Targeting or Turret/Torso/Swivel and Elevation. I may have to use Mouse Emulation on this one unless theres a way to map keys to how you look around.

Should be good for mechs and tanks.
The sticks should let me map about about 10 selections at the fingers and the 2 triggers. That's not including the Hats.

Since nothing is out yet for me to really test I have been playing in Sandbox Editor in a desert i made with the tanks and testing out some joystick mappings on some of my old joysticks.
The only reason for me to touch the mouse and keyboard is for when I am in not in a mech or vehicle. Hopefully for me that doesn't happen much. :)

I played a lot of BF2 and 2142. Mostly Tanker or Hauling guys to Capture Points in an APC.

I can't wait to play...;)

Well, my previous offer still stands.   ;)

wvision: have you found a left-handed joystick?  I was thinking about a very similar setup using two sticks but all the joysticks I found were right-handed and would be very uncomfortable for a dual-stick setup.   >:(

Of course, the other easy option is to just use the wasd keys instead of the left stick with the surrounding keys for ancillary functions.

Hey, guys, I don't mean to sounds snotty, but can we keep this on topic?  I'm afraid this will get hijacked by the discussion of controls, which is a tangent to the words in the subject and not germane to the topic.  Perhaps a new thread to discuss controls would be in order?

Actually, we could provide it in theory. The problem, as always, is one of time. I know we'll have a features release after our initial one but I can't say what will go in and what won't. We've gotten lots of requests for specialised features. Some, like this one are so application specific, 99.9% of the people that run this mod will never use it, and it's alot of work for 0.1%. I was toying with adding in webcam head tracking as that would be something more likely others will enjoy.

ToeBall,

I haven't looked at the MOD-SDK in detail yet, but I know C/C++.  I mentioned to AoP in a private message that I'd possibly be willing to enable it.  I'm working with some other people on doing this now for Freespace Open, but if it's possible to enable for your mod, I'd be interested in taking a deeper look/having a discussion.  We'll be looking for another project after we finish up with FSO.  I realize this isn't a priority for your target audience, so the time frame wouldn't be important to me.  Perhaps before you folks quit the project and move onto other things?

For what it's worth, TrackIR support is a great idea, and I wouldn't be at all surprised if the folks over at Natural Point wouldn't help to make it happen, and TrackIR support means Freetrack support.  ;)

Sounds good to me. If you develop something in the regular modsdk we can probably port it over to the mod later. As I said, we'll do a feature release of some kind post release since there's no way to get everything we want in by our target date, at least not with a few programmers working part time. After the mod releases though, we can slow the pace and start implementing things we want to see in game and didn't get to earlier.

Ok, cool.  We'll finish up with our activities for FSO and then turn our attention to modifying Crysis.  I'll be in touch when I've got something to report on that end.

I know you don't want any derailment from the main topic xCav8r, but enabling TrackIR support would be an awesome accomplishment in both FSO and CryEngine2!

It's not that I don't want to talk about some of these other topics.  I do.  And, now that I got some input from ToeBall, I suppose I don't need to be such a harpy.  Perhaps in the spirit of shared interests with my desire to keep this on topic, I'll start a new topic for discussing how people might set up controls for MWLL.

On the TrackIR note, since it's more development-oriented and was mentioned by ToeBall, MWLL can request an SDK (http://naturalpoint.com/trackir/05-developers/developers-sdk-form.html) from Natural Point.  I don't have any direct experience working with them, but it's my understanding that they've provided active support in the past, but I don't know if that has included non-commercial mods.  They also have a free SDK, but I'm not sure it's up to snuff for a game.  (Read SDK comparison here (http://naturalpoint.com/trackir/05-developers/which-sdk.html).)  Anyway, IMHO it's in their best interests to expand the list of titles of TIR-enhanced games, but with the proliferation of Freetrack as an alternative, perhaps they've become more guarded about releasing the SDK or supporting certain development projects.  If I were you, I'd give them a call on the telephone.  I'd think they'd be interested, if not excited, about something in the CryEngine space doing this (if it's not already been done or looked at).

Finally, for TrackIR support for FSO, check here  (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,51289.0.html)and here (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,52542.0.html).

EDIT:  After looking over in the General Discussion forum, I noticed that there are a number of threads already devoted to the subject of setting up controls for MWLL.  In fact, there is a discussion going on now entitled 'Mech Controls (http://www.mechlivinglegends.net/forum/index.php/topic,198.0.html).  There is even a fork of the data feed idea in a topic called Mech Simulators (http://www.mechlivinglegends.net/forum/index.php/topic,2374.0.html).

You have my interest. I can help with the simpit shell design engineering aspects.