MechWarrior: Living Legends
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Author Topic: Limited release for publicity...  (Read 1942 times)
Insanity
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« on: January 14, 2008, 10:25:17 AM »

I know this may be premature/undesired, but I would suggest a release of a 'primitive' version of the game with the following features:

1)  3 IS mechs, 2 Clan Mechs (for instance... any already modeled?)
2)  A simple game type that pits a Star of Clan mechs (5 mechs) vs. 2 Lances of IS mechs (8 mechs) in what I would presume to be the Solaris Arena map already advertised.  Whoever is last standing, wins.

This would do a number of things:

1)  Drum up a tremendous amount of support for the mod, possibly bringing in new talent/coders.
2)  Sell an awful lot of new hardware and copies of Crysis.
3)  Reassure people that this mod will be producing a functional product in the near term (ie: ~1y) on the current engine.

Thoughts?

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Mrocz
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« Reply #1 on: January 14, 2008, 11:10:36 AM »

If it is possible to do now. I agree, but I doubt that devs have prepared enough material to make even primitive game... There are still only models, and i didn't hear about ready Mech physics...
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« Reply #2 on: January 14, 2008, 02:34:52 PM »

Heck, I would wet myself if they released the tank level with the Demolisher included.   Grin

Realistically, it will be some time before they can release anything for public consumption.  It would be foolhardy to release anything that is based on alpha because then people would get all pissy thinking the final product would be the same.
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AoP
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« Reply #3 on: January 14, 2008, 02:57:22 PM »

Realistically, it will be some time before they can release anything for public consumption.  It would be foolhardy to release anything that is based on alpha because then people would get all pissy thinking the final product would be the same.

Exactly. We have no plans to bypass alpha and "friends & family" beta stages, meaning we have no plans to bypass testing with people who'll constantly get hammered with "this whole thing is a WIP". 
« Last Edit: January 14, 2008, 03:01:48 PM by AoP » Logged



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Insanity
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« Reply #4 on: January 14, 2008, 08:24:40 PM »

Realistically, it will be some time before they can release anything for public consumption.  It would be foolhardy to release anything that is based on alpha because then people would get all pissy thinking the final product would be the same.

Exactly. We have no plans to bypass alpha and "friends & family" beta stages, meaning we have no plans to bypass testing with people who'll constantly get hammered with "this whole thing is a WIP". 

*nods*  I understand the concern. 

However, there are specific benefits in focusing on the Solaris Arena as an early release endpoint noted above.  Gameplay balance for a limited group of weapons/vehicles can be tested intensively with a large userbase.  This leads to improved bug-finding... etc.

In addition, early evidence of progress would counter people who claim that MWLL is vaporware and destined to switch engines with no release.  I've heard that on more than one occasion since I've started following the mod development. 

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Masakari
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« Reply #5 on: January 14, 2008, 09:18:18 PM »

Lol, who cares what people think.
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« Reply #6 on: January 14, 2008, 09:21:17 PM »

Yes, but we, on the inside, know otherwise.
Rumors are rumors, and that's that.

We know what we're doing, and when the time is ready, there will be public testing. Anything premature could even lead to distaste among fans. I know your excitement and anticipation makes you all giddy in the pants, but all will be well in due time.

Take our word for it.
Public testing will occur when the time is right.

Stay Tuned!
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« Reply #7 on: January 15, 2008, 12:50:28 AM »

My faith is in the team. Let us be patient, and await their masterpiece unfold before our very own eyes. Just so happens its on their time, not ours! You'll take your time, and I like the attitude of not caring about the rumors. You'll know the truth, your work is solid!
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AoP
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« Reply #8 on: January 15, 2008, 02:12:38 AM »

However, there are specific benefits in focusing on the Solaris Arena as an early release endpoint noted above.  Gameplay balance for a limited group of weapons/vehicles can be tested intensively with a large userbase.  This leads to improved bug-finding... etc.

It's a fact that a vast majority of people never provide any feedback for betas they participate in. Instead they move around and complain about "why do we have to pay for DEMOS" (subscriber only beta tests on Fileplanet), "how can you release such a shitty DEMO", "if the final product is anywhere near this DEMO, this product will suck" etc. I think I speak for everyone on the team when I say we'll live better without this particular kind of "feedback".
By releasing an unfinished product to the public, we'd definitely hear more of the above mentioned complaints about a "rubbish product" than receiving valueable additional feedback. As said, we'll rather go with people who feel compelled to provide good, reliable feedback than with random people just coming here to unload  their frustration.
Now please don't say the BT crowd would be significantly different from the average gamer out there. In the past months, I've seen some of the experience and expertise in gaming/IT related stuff that some BT enthusiasts work with. Don't get me wrong - not judging them, not making fun of them. I'm just saying that there's people out there who wouldn't know what to expect from an early pre-release release - or what not to expect from it. That kind of people we don't want to scare off with a product that might not live up to their expectations yet at the same time we don't want to waste our time continuously explaining to them that what they hold in their hands is not actually a finished game but a product created for bughunting.

There will almost definitely be a more open beta stage, for which we'll be finding capable participants, but there will not be an "all audiences" flawed splinter of the full game, just to quench some people's thirst for a mech game.

In addition, early evidence of progress would counter people who claim that MWLL is vaporware and destined to switch engines with no release.  I've heard that on more than one occasion since I've started following the mod development. 

Well, it's an obvious remark that we've been hearing as well. The mod idea was born around Battlefield 2142, on which even some video clips were created. However, as far as I remember, 2142 was never considered as release platform, not least because of pathetic community (both, modding and competetive) support from DICE. Things got serious with ET:QW, which was considered to be release platform for more than half a year. The decision to move on to Crysis, respectively the CryEngine2 was well considered and turned and twisted for quite a while before being executed. Reasons for the move were given around the time we announced it and there's nothing to be added. The move to CE2 was not least made because we firmly believe it is the most powerful, flexible, interesting engine available right now and for some time in the near future.

Other than that, I firmly believe some of the video material we released in the past few weeks should be proof that work is being done over here.
« Last Edit: January 15, 2008, 03:35:56 AM by AoP » Logged



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« Reply #9 on: January 15, 2008, 03:16:11 AM »

Insanity I think I want to explain one thing that may put your mind at ease.

With the way production works on a  project like this, especially with the scale of our team, the entire system is essentially pipelined. While programmers do their thing to get vehicles setup, artists are working and vehicle and map assests to get them ready to implement in game, level designers are pumping out level after level, our sound department works on new sounds and our Leads orchestrate it all into one giant assembly line.

Once the programming is done, which would be the major "blocker" for the pre-release teaser you describe, we'll be nearly DONE with a full beta release ANYWAYS. To bother concentrating for a goal like what you have in mind is somewhat silly, as doing so would set a full release back, while creating no REAL benefit. Bluntly put, I love the community, and I love the game, so I'm NOT about to allow the release of crap just to "promote" a game thats already MORE than plenty well promoted. We're not exactly in this for the money, thank god, so we don't have to concern ourselves with the marketing issues getting in the way of the way things SHOULD be done. Fortunately, that is the ONE thing that we can say about working on a mod, that the all mighty dollar does indeed NOT dictate what we do, so we are free to allow our vision to come full circle, and NOT rush it out the door.

We won't give you crap, and we will give it to you as quickly as possible. I assure you we're working like rabid white rabbits at knights soft and exposed necks on this mod. Some of the things we ALREADY have are cool as HELL (and it's stuff I DIDN'T work on, so thats an honest opinion).

The problem all comes down to, the first one is hard, the rest...meh, give us a week or two and their done. Thats the problem with the programming, the art, the animation, the levels....everything. First one, takes us forever. Once we've got one under our belt (and ESPECIALLY in programming, once the basic C++ is done) the rest just FLY by.


Edited for my awful grammar and spelling  Roll Eyes
« Last Edit: January 17, 2008, 01:15:49 AM by MWLLKeeper » Logged

PanzerBoxb
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« Reply #10 on: January 15, 2008, 07:23:48 AM »

It is reasoned responses like this that give me great confidence in the team.
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Landros Radick
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« Reply #11 on: January 15, 2008, 11:15:18 AM »

I don't think I can say much more over my colleagues already wise words.

Though I can understand Insanity's plea for pre-release stuff to help balance the game. I was there at the beginning at DSC when the MW4 Demo, BK, Mercs were released and for the next couple of years the constant insanity of discussions and arguments about play balancing. While I also understand the need to get the play balancing right out of the gate, right now our focus is on implementation. Once everything is implemented and working, the gameplay balancing will come.. and that's the easier part to adjust.

As far as drumming up assurances to the community that this mod will come out, there's absolutely no need to do that. We as a mod team don't need to worry about whether or not people think we're vaporware because even if people don't believe that our mod will come out, we can make it for ourselves and let word of mouth spread. A single mod release post to even BluesNews, Fileplanet or ShackNews would suffice.

I think the single most contentious point was if Crysis itself had not been such a graphically (and technically) wonderful game, that this mod probably would have taken an even more enormous amount of time to release.
« Last Edit: January 15, 2008, 11:23:38 AM by Landros Radick » Logged
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« Reply #12 on: January 15, 2008, 12:12:37 PM »

Exactly as Keeper said. For example, once you write the code to do light amplification for one vehicle, it can be applied to all of them. At once. We've got a big art tearm firing out mechs, levels, and objects very rapidly so literally everything should be ready for beta around the same time. Please be patient, we really are putting in alot of time and work, or, like me, you can step up and apply to help get it made.
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Eboli
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« Reply #13 on: January 16, 2008, 08:10:55 PM »

Very intelligent and thought out responses here by the developers. 

As known by most people there are A LOT of Mechwarrior fans out there waiting for MW game utilising current technology and high end graphics.  If you build it properly they will come!

No need for an early release as I also believe it is more useful in spending such time and effort working towards a release when it is ready.

Take your time and do things properly!  I just wish that I could help out somehow but no doubt cannot.

Cheers,
Eboli

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« Reply #14 on: February 07, 2008, 06:25:03 AM »

Man I love this Team. I remember when i was one of the only guys answering these questions and now we have a team full of knowledgable and extremely passionate members who are not only very proffesional but experts in their own regards.

I understand how frustrating it is to sit and wait for a release but trust me the more time we spend in engine tweaking the far better the experience will be.
The other thing i want to touch on is the way our pipeline works. We are currently at build 1780 (or so) and each build is very different from the one before it, sometimes what works in one build doesn't work in another so on and so forth. For example right now if you log into the build i have you will be running around in a catapult and never be able to be infantry because i am testing the characterization of the mechs. So to give you a early build would just be very difficult. Add on the fact that we've circumvented alot of things and "hacked" alot of the assets into the engine since officially on 1.1 there is not real mod support.

Almost all of the members of these forums will no doubt be invited to a closed beta test as we will need that many players to really stress test the servers as well as the builds. The date at which this happends is not set in stone yet, but rest assured all of our devoted forum members will receive invites into various stages of production.
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