MechWarrior: Living Legends
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Flyingdebris
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« on: March 19, 2008, 02:39:04 PM »

The mechwarrior games have traditionally had a control method that usually had a very boat throttle feel to it, i.e. setting your speed and making adjustments.  Is it going to be changed to be more  in line to how vehicles are controlled in crysis, BF, and most other games i.e. using WASD, or will we have boat throttles again?

I'd personally prefer a wasd feel of speed control, as it'd probably mean less running into random things and more short range agility. But at the same time, boat throttle mode gives more control to joystick users. I'm not dead set either way.

Just curious to know what the plan is right now.
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ToeBall
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« Reply #1 on: March 19, 2008, 07:13:23 PM »

We're actually trying for some hybrid. If it works it'll give the best of both worlds, and if not we'll pick one. In a sense though, if you think about it, mechs are supposed to feel like boats in a sense since they're very heavy and clumsy vehicles.
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Clownmite
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« Reply #2 on: March 19, 2008, 08:58:44 PM »

I'd prefer the traditional mechwarrior throttle method, but I'm confident that whatever the team decides will be good.
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WhiteMufasa
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« Reply #3 on: March 20, 2008, 12:04:52 PM »

I am a huge fan of the "boat throttle".... only inconvenience is switching it between WASD when not in a mech/vehicle
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« Reply #4 on: March 20, 2008, 06:58:56 PM »

I like the Boat throttle. It gives one the sense of Mass of piloting a large heavy machine. And after all thats what Mechs are.
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Gambit
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« Reply #5 on: March 23, 2008, 03:05:39 AM »

I like the idea of a boat throttle as well.

It should take time to get up to speed. 
Should handle more like MW2 than MW4.
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Kit Lightning
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« Reply #6 on: April 04, 2008, 07:41:25 AM »

A Mech should slowly build up its movement-speed, due to that the reactor has to force/add more fuel to gain speed, and that said, it should also be that slower to stop the Mech, from full speed.
But it should also depend on the tonnage of the unit, that a small ship may speed up rapidly, and also slow down (actually kicking the engine in reverse), but a large/heavy boat will slowly get up to full speed, but also (as with tankers) take a long time to stop (on the part of tankers above 300 feet, it can takes up to 10 hours to stop). Cool
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siodseraph
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« Reply #7 on: April 15, 2008, 02:35:22 AM »

Edit: Answered this question through the forum while browsing. Just leaving it for reference Smiley

Hey everyone,

I am new here but this post really got my attention. I do agree on the boat kind of throttle. A mech jumping forward in split seconds to its top speed of 120 km/h is just not realistic enough. Even with their super strong artificial muscles and a fusion reactor feeding the energy I still wouldn't like to see a mech jumping at me like that. I agree there should be a different kind of acceleration depending on the weight of the mech.

Now what came to my mind (and made me register to this forum in effect) was: How do you control the crosshair? I was just playing Mechwarrior 4 Mercenaries yesterday and got frustrated since I was not able to move the crosshair independently from my mech or the mechs' torso. The game that I liked most was Mechwarrior 3 - even though you had to control a lot of things at the same time the whole crosshair moving with the mouse really made me feel in total control of the movements of the mech and the weapons independently. Is something like that planned for MWLL? Even as an additional option it would be a nice feature for the more "advanced" players that like to move their weapons aiming ...

Keep up the great work! Heard about this game yesterday and going to keep track on your work in progress!
« Last Edit: April 15, 2008, 02:51:48 AM by siodseraph » Logged
TheEnigma
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« Reply #8 on: April 15, 2008, 05:23:46 AM »

Now what came to my mind (and made me register to this forum in effect) was: How do you control the crosshair? I was just playing Mechwarrior 4 Mercenaries yesterday and got frustrated since I was not able to move the crosshair independently from my mech or the mechs' torso. The game that I liked most was Mechwarrior 3 - even though you had to control a lot of things at the same time the whole crosshair moving with the mouse really made me feel in total control of the movements of the mech and the weapons independently. Is something like that planned for MWLL? Even as an additional option it would be a nice feature for the more "advanced" players that like to move their weapons aiming ...

Yeah I've been playing some Mercs recently and I really feel the same pain of the weapons not being able to be controlled independently of the torso, would be nice to see them act completely separately.
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siodseraph
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« Reply #9 on: April 15, 2008, 05:30:28 AM »

As posted here:http://www.mechlivinglegends.net/component/option,com_smf/Itemid,36/topic,1815.0/ there would be some problems with clipping. The Masakari has been taken as an example there. I agree it would be a difficult task but I am still hoping for it Cheesy
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zaha
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« Reply #10 on: April 21, 2008, 06:26:03 AM »

As I agree that a Mech should build up it's speed (just like any other vehicle), I don't think a throttle fits a Mech. A throttle means rather indirect control of speed, just perfect for planes or aerospace. They rarely need to abruptly adjust their speed to their surroundings, so it's an adequate speed control. Mechs, on the contrary, are combat robots built after a human paradigm. Superior mobility is often mentioned as one of the key advantages of mechs over other war machines or combat vehicles. Of course, a mech can't accelerate to its max speed in a leap just like men can, that's because they are mechanic and not perfect.

But I don't see, why they should not have an adequate acceleration and why they should not be able to stop rather abruptly (think about the mad cat in the mechwarrior 3 intro, stopping abruptly right in front of the atlas as it got intercepted. Doesn't look unrealistic to me). Furthermore, high mobility is not all about fast acceleration or slowdown, it's also about maneuverability. I think mechs should be more maneuverable as ground vehicles, a throttle control just would not do justice to this. Even said ground vehicles don't have a throttle, as it would only restrict their maneuverability and is not advisable, as you have to accelerate/decelerate rather often compared to planes (except for truck drivers using a cruise control on a highway, but that's not comparable). So why should mechs have a throttle, then?

Yeah, in the past mechwarrior titles there was always a throttle control for mechs. But why? In the books they say mechwarriors control the speed of their mechs by some kind of pedal at the foot of the mechwarrior. Not sure how exactly this work's, but this does not sound like an airplane throttle control. Just because it was always this way does not automatically mean it's the best solution. Alas, in the past mechwarrior titles, I don't think the mobility of the mechs was depicted how it should have been.

All of the above is my personal opinion on this topic. We'll have to see how all of this works out. I hope we can find a solution that satisfies the most fans and does justice to the mechs.
« Last Edit: April 21, 2008, 06:38:12 AM by zaha » Logged


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siodseraph
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« Reply #11 on: April 21, 2008, 06:46:31 AM »

But I don't see, why they should not have an adequate acceleration and why they should not be able to stop rather abruptly (think about the mad cat in the mechwarrior 3 intro, stopping abruptly right in front of the atlas as it got intercepted. Doesn't look unrealistic to me).

I just had a look at the opening video (http://youtube.com/watch?v=L-iEhX6ihzE) and I have to say it does look natural for the mech to stop quickly (1:40 time).

But I don't see, why they should not have an adequate acceleration and why they should not be able to stop rather abruptly (think about the mad cat in the mechwarrior 3 intro, stopping abruptly right in front of the atlas as it got intercepted. Doesn't look unrealistic to me). Furthermore, high mobility is not all about fast acceleration or slowdown, it's also about maneuverability. I think mechs should be more maneuverable as ground vehicles, a throttle control just would not do justice to this. Even said ground vehicles don't have a throttle, as it would only restrict their maneuverability and is not advisable, as you have to accelerate/decelerate rather often compared to planes (except for truck drivers using a cruise control on a highway, but that's not comparable). So why should mechs have a throttle, then?

Sounds all reasonable to me. I do agree that mechs have been developed as the superior battlefield force. I would now agree on their maneuverability being one of their biggest advantages. When I said they should accelerate "slower" than leaping. I didn't mean they should be that slow in the end. Just not 0 - 100 km/h in 1 or 2 seconds. Even though they might be able to do that I would assume that a lose ground would make that kind of stepping forward rather unrealistic. About the getting to a halt: let them skid to a halt. Slowing down 50 tons of mass on iron legs just asks for skidding. A metal foot wont have as much grip on solid ground than a rubber tire I would think.

Yeah, in the past mechwarrior titles there always was a throttle for mechs. But why? In the books they say mechwarriors control the speed of their mechs by some kind of pedal at the foot of the mechwarrior. Not sure how exactly this work's, but this does not sound like an airplane throttle control. Just because it was always this way does not automatically mean it's the best solution. Alas, in the past mechwarrior titles, I don't think the mobility of the mechs was depicted how it should have been.

Are we talking about the way they start running or the actual throttle on a joystick? I still would like to use my old school throttle control on my joystick to adjust my mechs speed and movement direction Cheesy I assume we are talking about the way they move here ...

All of the above is my personal opinion on this topic. We'll have to see how all of this works out. I hope we can find a solution that satisfies the most fans and does justice to the mechs.

I agree. And further adjustments are always possible during beta phase. If we see something that doesn't feel right there is still a chance to fix it Cheesy
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zaha
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« Reply #12 on: April 21, 2008, 07:49:09 AM »

Sounds all reasonable to me. I do agree that mechs have been developed as the superior battlefield force. I would now agree on their maneuverability being one of their biggest advantages. When I said they should accelerate "slower" than leaping. I didn't mean they should be that slow in the end. Just not 0 - 100 km/h in 1 or 2 seconds. Even though they might be able to do that I would assume that a lose ground would make that kind of stepping forward rather unrealistic. About the getting to a halt: let them skid to a halt. Slowing down 50 tons of mass on iron legs just asks for skidding. A metal foot wont have as much grip on solid ground than a rubber tire I would think.

Yeah, didn't mean to criticize you for your comment. I agree, that mechs lack the ability to leap forward like humans can, since they are mechanical machines and lack the efficience of biological organisms. Just wanted to point out that saying they can't do it as efficiently as humans can does not mean they can't do it at all.

Skidding would be a great way to deal with it (it's done this way in the table top, too). Would be awesome if we can implement something like that in a rudimentary realistic way. Have to talk to ToeBall about this.

Are we talking about the way they start running or the actual throttle on a joystick? I still would like to use my old school throttle control on my joystick to adjust my mechs speed and movement direction Cheesy I assume we are talking about the way they move here ...

Sorry, but I really did mean the throttle-like control. Of course, with a joystick, that's another story. I'm not sure what the other devs think about this, but there should be no problem adding a throttle control just for joysticks. Have to check on this, too.
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Flyingdebris
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« Reply #13 on: April 21, 2008, 09:43:36 AM »

i wouldn't mind having controls being being more inline to traditional FPS vehicle movement, just all long as there's acceleration and momentum included.  Throttle type controls don't really suit themselves to maneuverability type actions anyway since its not as intuitive to constant be switching directions, dropping speed, and all that kind of stuff needed for short range maneuverbility. 
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IgnisTemper
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« Reply #14 on: April 21, 2008, 12:28:37 PM »

I just watched that MW 3 intro for the first time in years and I started wondering, does anyone else think that MW 3 trumped MW 4 in gameplay due to it being more true to CBT?
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