MechWarrior: Living Legends
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siodseraph
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« Reply #30 on: April 25, 2008, 08:24:57 AM »

Now, if the myomer budles could be stimulated by an electric charge (like our muscles) to either be stiff or rigid... then even quicker accel and decel is possible...

Been a while that I read the books but I think that's exactly how the myomers (thanks for the word, slipped my mind a while ago) work. They are pretty much working like our muscles just at a much larger scale. Not sure how fast they are reacting tho. Chaoswolf might be our source on this one.

Let em accelerate fast if they are light and slower the heavier they get. That should be fine. But the skidding I would love to see! Especially on changing grounds that just makes sense. A mech would skid easily on concrete but a bit less when running offroad. Not sure if the engine can do that tho ...

Lets see how it will work once we hit public or closed beta - then we can discuss if it feels good or not Cheesy

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TimoBlastem
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« Reply #31 on: April 25, 2008, 11:57:31 AM »

Going rigid would require an extreme amount of energy I would think.  And even if you pumped a ton of electricity into the fibers, I bet they would still give a bit when a mech landed from a jump jet maneuver. 


If you had a second technology similar to car shocks that are a liquid metal but become rock hard when electrified, it might be possible.  But going rigid is a horrible idea when you're moving that kid of weight around.  You would shatter a mech knee or hip joint if you made it go rigid to try to stop from full-throttle.
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Defender
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« Reply #32 on: April 25, 2008, 01:22:06 PM »

How would you suggest controlling a battlemech with keyboard and mouse, then? Smiley

*turns on Mech3*
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Chaoswolf
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« Reply #33 on: April 25, 2008, 03:19:37 PM »

A ’Mech’s muscles—called myomers—are made up of bundles
of microscopically thin plastic tubes fi lled with a contracting substance.
Each tube, basically made of polyacetylene, is individually
extruded in microscopically thin forms and spun into the bundle.
The contractile fi lling, called acti-strandular fi ber, is crapped out
by vats of genetically engineered bacteria, rather like how alcohol
production occurs. This acti-strandular precursor material,
strained out of the vats, is mixed with specific polymers, and then
squirted into the tubes. The polyacetylene tubes are then electrified
 and the acti-strandular precursor material arranges itself into
intricate, complex nanoscale structures akin to the contractile
protein fi laments in natural muscle (myosin and actin filaments).
When the acti-strandular fibers are stimulated by sufficient
electrical energy, the fibers contract sharply. The process is virtually
identical to the contraction of protein fiaments in natural
muscles, but with an electrical power source, rather than a
chemical one. Also like natural muscle, the contraction is an allor-
nothing process. The level of strength generated by myomer
bundles is regulated by the number of myomer fibers triggered,
rather than the amount of current itself. As myomers are much
more powerful by weight than natural muscle, and can be built
on larger scales, it is their use that makes efficient ’Mechs possible.

 The relatively recent development of the NAIS’s “triple
strength myomers” are quite similar to normal myomers, but
operate more effi ciently when hot due to a simple and reversible
endothermic chemical reaction within the myomers.
Now, I tried to shake some of your misconceptions about
BattleMechs earlier by calling them walking tanks. At this
stage, I want to do the same with myomers, because you can’t
simply think of them as mere plastic muscles. Myomers are
electrical motors, and powerful ones at that. Even the small
bundles in a ’Mech’s fi ngers are multi-kilowatt motors, while
those of the legs are vastly more powerful. But it’s also important
to know that myomers aren’t particularly effi cient electrical
motors due to their high electrical resistance; without
vigorous cooling, they can fry themselves.

And while we’re talking about myomers as electrical motors,
I’d like to take a moment to discount a theory being
kicked around by—was it Lasers and Slugs magazine?—that
an easy way to cripple ’Mechs would be to hit them with riot
control stun bullets. Sorry, no. A little jolt of electricity from a
bullet isn’t going to make a ’Mech’s myomers twitch anymore
than a fl ashlight battery will budge the multi-megawatt motors
of a fusion-electric freight train.

On a related note, there’s the misconception that lightning
and PPCs (which actually are nothing like lightning) should
spasm a ’Mech and rip its myomers apart. ’Mechs protect
themselves from these electrical dangers much like your
home does with lightning rods. ’Mech armor and skeletons
are designed to provide low-resistance routes for stray electricity
to ground out safely without ever going through the
myomers. And once the armor’s gone…well, once the armor’s
gone, you’re shooting PPCs into bundles of plastic. Damage
will be done one way or another.

Source: Battletech - Techmanual
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« Reply #34 on: April 25, 2008, 03:36:29 PM »

If you had a second technology similar to car shocks that are a liquid metal but become rock hard when electrified, it might be possible.

There you have it *point to chaoswolfs posting*, does it work now? Tongue
Eh, does it work now?  Grin

Seriously, as you can see the myomer muscles of 'Mech are high technology (of course, it's technology of the 31st century!), they should be capable of amazing things. Of course that's essentially different from light mechs to heavy or even assault, but at least light mechs should not be slow when it comes to acceleration/deceleration nor should they feel clumsy at all.
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siodseraph
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« Reply #35 on: April 25, 2008, 11:51:55 PM »

And once the armor’s gone…well, once the armor’s
gone, you’re shooting PPCs into bundles of plastic. Damage
will be done one way or another.

Source: Battletech - Techmanual

Nice one again Smiley It looks like I need to take a look at those books myself. They seem to have some humor added to them so they are not too boring ... Cheesy
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TimoBlastem
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« Reply #36 on: April 26, 2008, 04:18:21 PM »

If you had a second technology similar to car shocks that are a liquid metal but become rock hard when electrified, it might be possible.

There you have it *point to chaoswolfs posting*, does it work now? Tongue
Eh, does it work now?  Grin

Seriously, as you can see the myomer muscles of 'Mech are high technology (of course, it's technology of the 31st century!), they should be capable of amazing things. Of course that's essentially different from light mechs to heavy or even assault, but at least light mechs should not be slow when it comes to acceleration/deceleration nor should they feel clumsy at all.

I wasn't talking about them accelerating and decelerating.  I'm sure that argument will go out the window and the devs will just tweak it until it feels right.  The myomer tech is different than what I expected, and based on the description from chaos, they all go rigid, but the amount of overal strength depends on how many fibers go rigid.  I think that if a mech is running full throttle and you make one leg go rigid, it will cause severe damage to the mech.  I'm sure 31st century machines can do incredible things, but I dont' think going rigid to stop is how, thats all.
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Flyingdebris
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« Reply #37 on: April 26, 2008, 05:59:15 PM »

run across an area, then in mid-run make your legs go rigid and see how well you stop.  You'll stop allright, but your face will be in the ground.

Mechs should respond fast to controls, but momentum should still have to be bled off.
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Blue highway ACE
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« Reply #38 on: May 20, 2008, 07:45:56 PM »

Hi Guys!
First time commenter here. Smiley

I must agree with those who'd like to use WASD to control the game.
My favorite MW game (control wise) was MW3. Being able to move the crosshair separately, gave a feeling of extra control over the machine. It would have been even neater if the crosshair would have automatically begun to move the body of the mech when coming to the edge of the screen. for example, when the crosshair hits the left edge of the screen, the whole body automatically begins to rotate left. I know this is kinda arcade style, and not truly mechwarrior-ish, but i really see no purpose in separating the two movement. Basically as i see it, on a mech, aiming (or following the movement of a target in general) is a hierarchy of moveable parts. On the top, are the fastest, easiest to move parts, represented by the reticule, under that the slower (but still relatively fast) moving upper body, and finally, the slowest, the feet movement. The fastest always moves first, and if it's not enough, the slower parts try to compensate.

And one final, heretical idea: Mechs should be able to strafe.

Bluey
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Landros Radick
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« Reply #39 on: May 20, 2008, 08:41:26 PM »

Hi Guys!
First time commenter here. Smiley

I must agree with those who'd like to use WASD to control the game.
My favorite MW game (control wise) was MW3. Being able to move the crosshair separately, gave a feeling of extra control over the machine. It would have been even neater if the crosshair would have automatically begun to move the body of the mech when coming to the edge of the screen. for example, when the crosshair hits the left edge of the screen, the whole body automatically begins to rotate left. I know this is kinda arcade style, and not truly mechwarrior-ish, but i really see no purpose in separating the two movement. Basically as i see it, on a mech, aiming (or following the movement of a target in general) is a hierarchy of moveable parts. On the top, are the fastest, easiest to move parts, represented by the reticule, under that the slower (but still relatively fast) moving upper body, and finally, the slowest, the feet movement. The fastest always moves first, and if it's not enough, the slower parts try to compensate.

And one final, heretical idea: Mechs should be able to strafe.

Bluey

Without going into a Physics and Perpetual Motion debate, tell me exactly how a MadCat could "strafe."
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ToeBall
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« Reply #40 on: May 20, 2008, 08:42:32 PM »

Mechs have never strafed before. I'm not sure they can. The Catapult, for example has very limited hip movement which is where the motion needed for strafing comes from. I'm also worried that coding a strafe ability into mechs will turn the game into another mech assault.
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Aurora Paradox
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« Reply #41 on: May 20, 2008, 09:01:05 PM »

Mechs have never strafed before. I'm not sure they can. The Catapult, for example has very limited hip movement which is where the motion needed for strafing comes from. I'm also worried that coding a strafe ability into mechs will turn the game into another mech assault.

I agree.  I felt that the movement of the mechs in mech assault was unrealistic.  I also felt it was too arcadish.   I would hate to see this mod be brought down to the level of mech assault.  No mech has been able to strafe in the previous games I don't see any reason for them to be given the ability now.

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Blue highway ACE
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« Reply #42 on: May 20, 2008, 11:24:43 PM »

Landros Radick, ToeBall, Aurora Paradox, I'm certain if Mechs would exist, they could strafe. Bipedal motion based on switching the center of gravity between legs, which requires hip motion. All the "better", more realistic looking mech animations (battletech or any other universe) picture a bit of hip swaying. This automatically enables strafing, and i never understood how can anyone overlook this. I don't mean of course a hopping fast motion, rather small side steps. But I'm sure they should be possible. I never played Mech Assault, and I'm sure that fast strafing would turn the otherwise robust mech movement into a rather heavy-gear like arcade gameplay. I'd leave fast strafing to Elementals too, but would love to see a capeability of small side steps for mechs.
But it's really just a nuisance. Smiley

Bluey

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Masakari
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« Reply #43 on: May 20, 2008, 11:47:47 PM »

4 legged mechs could strafe.

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ToeBall
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« Reply #44 on: May 21, 2008, 12:07:34 AM »

Excelent! how many 4 legged mech are in MWLL? Serriously though, I've never heard of mechs strafing in CBT. Elementals can strafe because they can't torso twist. With hovercraft, the Svantovit can strafe but can't rotate its turret. The Harraser can rotate its turret but can't strafe. While I'm not posative of it, those two movement types seem to be mutually exlusive in Battletech. In fact, now that I think about it, 4 legged mechs can't torso twist either.
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