News
:
Nomination phase in the ModDB Mod Of The Year 2008 Awards has begun! Help MWLL by voting for us!
Home
Forum
Calendar
Login
Register
MechWarrior: Living Legends
>
Public Discussion
>
Ideas and Suggestions
>
Planes
Pages:
1
...
7
8
[
9
]
10
11
Go Down
« previous
next »
Print
Author
Topic: Planes (Read 7259 times)
Hellfire
Recruit
Online
Posts: 108
Re: Planes
«
Reply #120 on:
May 14, 2008, 12:46:41 PM »
Quote from: Spyro on May 14, 2008, 05:18:57 AM
ya it all looks good...and for the love of everything mech...WINGS STILL DO MATTER!
Yep, having them is better than not.
Quote
hell give me wings with your "VTOL" capability...which let me point out is not there for aerospace fighters,
I gave you two books it was in and a page number for the second one. Why the disbelief?
Quote
you would turn even faster than with just the engine! Don't believe me?
Only if it was designed that way.
Quote
then WHY do they all still HAVE wings!?
Because they look cool, give you a place to mount more ordinance (external and internal), and might save on fuel.
Quote
Ive seen no form of maneuvering thrusters that give vertical force to counter-act gravity
Have you never seen jumpjets. Also their mentioned in two rulebooks. Their not as good as dedicated VTOL equipment for conventional fighters but they can still get the job done. Game mechanics wise, the dice role for doing a VTOL landing in an aerospace fighter has a harder dice role than a conventional fighter with dedicated VTOL equipment.
Quote
...this is also shown when the sparrow hawk dumps its armor when it enters the atmosphere...why? b/e it increases mobility, if it was held up by maneuvering thrusters this wouldn't need to, or want to happen
Can you explain your example here. Are you talking about aerobraking?
Logged
Spyro
Recruit
Offline
Posts: 151
Re: Planes
«
Reply #121 on:
May 14, 2008, 01:07:02 PM »
whatever, entire discussion is pointless, the fact is is that they don't have the limited VTOL capability in game...cause if they did then planes would be next to impossible to hit since you would get people like me basically jump their plane very suddenly up and maintain the same target while the mech has to track it.
P.S. can you scan the pages of the books for me? I don't own them...post the pics here if you could somehow.
Logged
Aeries
Bondsman
Offline
Posts: 7
Re: Planes
«
Reply #122 on:
May 14, 2008, 10:44:44 PM »
Maybe they are referring to LAM'S (Land Air Mechs). They had the ability to convert from aerospace fighter to a hybrid to a mech.
Logged
Hellfire
Recruit
Online
Posts: 108
Re: Planes
«
Reply #123 on:
May 15, 2008, 06:30:12 AM »
Quote from: Spyro on May 14, 2008, 01:07:02 PM
P.S. can you scan the pages of the books for me? I don't own them...post the pics here if you could somehow.
No, can do unfortunately.
I can give you a handy discussion
thread
about it though.
Think about it for a second, RCS thrusters that can flip a 100ton fighter 180 degrees in useful time periods are going to be pretty damn powerful. Also, they had to make it a rule otherwise fighters couldn't land on airless worlds.
«
Last Edit: May 15, 2008, 07:37:17 AM by Hellfire
»
Logged
Spyro
Recruit
Offline
Posts: 151
Re: Planes
«
Reply #124 on:
May 15, 2008, 02:23:42 PM »
no my thing was normal thrusters for aired world since the plasma engines don't work with ionized particles (atmospheres)...sooo since there is a difference b/n Aerospace and conventional I suppose this is possible.
Logged
Hellfire
Recruit
Online
Posts: 108
Re: Planes
«
Reply #125 on:
May 15, 2008, 06:16:20 PM »
Quote from: Spyro on May 15, 2008, 02:23:42 PM
no my thing was normal thrusters for aired world since the plasma engines don't work with ionized particles (atmospheres)...sooo since there is a difference b/n Aerospace and conventional I suppose this is possible.
I'm not sure what your talking about. Your not making yourself very clear. Aerospace fighter engines would have to use ionized particles at some point or the magnetic containment wouldn't be able to contain the fusing hydrogen. Unless your trying to fly an aerospace fighter down into a gas giant atmosphere should be irrelevant to the operation of the engine and thrusters because there isn't any air intake. It seems like the air intake issue may be what you are referring to in regards to the conventional/aerospace fighter differences.
Logged
Cujo
MechWarrior
Offline
Posts: 277
Re: Planes
«
Reply #126 on:
May 16, 2008, 01:07:23 AM »
He's referring to the
current
limitations of
our
ion/electrical/fusionish engines, at least currently they do not work in an ionized atmosphere and their enormous lack in thrust makes them only usable in space*.
(I wouldn't claim to be much of an expert, I'm mostly just relaying what I've read and thrown in my own speculations.)
It could be possible (and this seems to be the case) that they fixed the issue of thrust (this being fictional and a ways into the future). So that would eliminate the thrust problem.
The other issue with ion/electrical/fusionish engines is the presence of ionized particles. Some of the atmosphere of a planet is ionized by solar radiation (Ionosphere of earth for example) this would also be in like in thunderstorms where there are charged particles.
But that doesn't seem so much of an issue if they eliminated the thrust problem, even on reentry it probably would be no more than a minor inconvenience. the intakes on several of the craft seem to denote the use of ram jets maybe.
So either the air intake would be for transitional engines(or just for use in ionized atmospheric areas), but maybe they work as ram jets. The intake configuration of the sabre might denote the use of a ram jet (upper intakes don't really appear to add to normal jet function due to their position, being too far back to seemingly go into a main jet engine, however not too far back to not possibly be a ram jet intake). If they aren't using any jet turbines or ram jets there wouldn't really be a need for air intake like those.
Ram Jets might not be really uber high tech, but they don't have moving parts and if those things zip around pretty fast, then they would probably be very beneficial from a practical standpoint, it would certainly add thrust by further compression of the gases, and/or making the engine more efficient at high speeds. more or less acting like a turbo-charger on a car. Or it would allow them to have boosters (in atmosphere) for quick get-away boosts or long travel. It may also just add speed or maybe if they haven't really fixed the thrust problem to the extent where an electric thrust engine would be practical in atmosphere, but isn't useless, just not able to provide enough thrust.
some interesting reading on our current ion thrusters
http://www.nasa.gov/vision/universe/features/nep_prometheus.html
*quote from the article linked above.
"Although Herakles' thrust is as gentle as the force of 10 U.S. quarters in your hand, the speed of the spacecraft will constantly increase as it travels. That means Prometheus 1 could eventually reach speeds greater than 200,000 mph -- 10 times faster than the speed of Space Shuttles." (this is in space)
**To be totally honest, other than an interesting read into the (currently developing) technology, the whole big argument is mostly just pointless. Sure some of these things aren't really physically possible, but that's part of the reason we love sci-fi.**
«
Last Edit: May 16, 2008, 09:14:33 PM by Cujo
»
Logged
Hellfire
Recruit
Online
Posts: 108
Re: Planes
«
Reply #127 on:
May 16, 2008, 07:40:52 PM »
Quote from: Cujo on May 16, 2008, 01:07:23 AM
He's referring to the
current
limitations of
our
ion engines, at least currently they do not work in an ionized atmosphere and their enormous lack in thrust makes them only usable in space*.
Battletech fighters don't use ion drives. They use energy beams of some kind (laser, microwave, etc.) to heat reaction mass (hydrogen) and shove it out the back. Picture something
vaguely
like this. Kudos to
Atomic Rocket
for the image.
My source for this is Tech Manual saying that aerospace fusion rockets work sort of like jump jets. Note I don't have Tech Manual so this is second hand.
Quote
So either the air intake would be for transitional engines(or just for use in ionized atmospheric areas), but maybe they work as ram jets.
Their most likely for raming air over the heat sinks. Also, as far as canon goes everything >> art. In other words their there because they look cool.
Logged
Masakari
I wont forgot to brung it next time :downs:
MWLL DEV
Star Captain
Offline
Posts: 1074
Better safe than sorry.
Re: Planes
«
Reply #128 on:
May 16, 2008, 07:44:28 PM »
Why are you guys discussing this?
Logged
:conspiracy:
Quote from: ATLAS2696 on May 14, 2008, 08:00:44 PM
How i play this is it just for making it or playing and making it
Fail
Sturmadler
Recruit
Offline
Posts: 90
3rd RCT - Star League Armed Forces
Re: Planes
«
Reply #129 on:
May 16, 2008, 08:07:15 PM »
Quote
Battletech fighters don't use ion drives. They use energy beams of some kind (laser, microwave, etc.) to heat reaction mass (hydrogen) and shove it out the back
Ion drives ARE mass drives (although as evidenced here, mass drives need not necessarily use ions). Squares are rectangles, etc...
In most science fiction jargon, an "ion drive" is used as the most common type of mass drive. The important point here is, stuff's being shoved out the back, one tiny bit at a time, at a very rapid rate, propelling the ship forward (Newton's 3rd Law) and conserving fuel very efficiently. For parctical purposes, what's the difference?
P.S. If you really wanted to, you could run your mass drive on cute little kittens.
P.P.S. I suppose we really ought to get back on topic here, entaining as that thought may be. So what's the verdict on aerospace in MWLL? Speed, flight ceiling, stalling, size relative to tonnage? Are they going to feel out of place?
«
Last Edit: May 16, 2008, 08:17:04 PM by Sturmadler
»
Logged
"To achieve this major project goal, we feel more time is needed." - And all the Whos down in Whoville cried "boo-hoo"
MWLLKeeper
Professional Amature
MWLL DEV
Lance Sergeant
Online
Posts: 446
Re: Planes
«
Reply #130 on:
May 16, 2008, 08:23:07 PM »
Lmao. Actually...Though it may not be CALLED an ion drive, what you describe could very well be considered a form of Ion drive. But I digress.
I'm also curious, why on earth did the planes thread get hijacked to what kind of drives the aerospace use in battletech?
Logged
Cujo
MechWarrior
Offline
Posts: 277
Re: Planes
«
Reply #131 on:
May 16, 2008, 09:13:42 PM »
because people started a pointless argument arguing about sci-fi technology
people like to argue.
and fixd.
«
Last Edit: May 16, 2008, 09:15:54 PM by Cujo
»
Logged
Spyro
Recruit
Offline
Posts: 151
Re: Planes
«
Reply #132 on:
May 17, 2008, 01:58:54 PM »
well Im re-hijacking it! about how much does it take to take an aerospace fighter down? say a Sulla and a Shiva
Logged
AoP
Lead Dev
Living Legend
Offline
Posts: 2124
Re: Planes
«
Reply #133 on:
May 17, 2008, 01:59:52 PM »
Quote from: Spyro on May 17, 2008, 01:58:54 PM
well Im re-hijacking it! about how much does it take to take an aerospace fighter down? say a Sulla and a Shiva
Can't be answered yet. That'll be a consideration shortly before the beta tests.
Logged
With children use force, with men reason; such is the natural order of things. The wise man requires no law.
Jean-Jaques Rousseau
Spyro
Recruit
Offline
Posts: 151
Re: Planes
«
Reply #134 on:
July 02, 2008, 12:53:51 PM »
CLEAR! Live damn you LIVE!!!
time to wake this up for a question or two more...Will you be able to shoot off a wing, then watch as the victim spirals down to earth or is it BF-2 style? Or even cooler could you ignite the engine and watch him try to glide emergency land? Lastly will there be G effects?
Logged
Pages:
1
...
7
8
[
9
]
10
11
Go Up
Print
« previous
next »
Jump to:
Please select a destination:
-----------------------------
Public Discussion
-----------------------------
=> General Discussion
=> Community Involvement
=> Ideas and Suggestions
=> Tech Forum
=> Join The Team
=> Battletech Universe
=> Player Communities Recruiting
-----------------------------
Off Topic
-----------------------------
=> Other Gaming
=> Toast
Loading...