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Topic: TAG/NARC (Read 1238 times)
Seraph
Apprentice Dev
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Steven "Seraph" Grimm
TAG/NARC
«
on:
May 28, 2008, 07:41:24 AM »
Reading this:
http://www.mechlivinglegends.net/content/view/88
Wondering this: Is it really only meant to be for the bomber? I would like to see it work for LRMs too if possible. That's what I did in MW3 often .. mark stuff and let others kick it's butt with rocket
Sorry if this has been discussed before - but it really came to my mind when I checked that spec page.
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Flyingdebris
Lance Sergeant
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Posts: 484
Re: TAG/NARC
«
Reply #1 on:
May 28, 2008, 09:26:50 AM »
seconded
especially for those oh so fun arrow 4s
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Sturmadler
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3rd RCT - Star League Armed Forces
Re: TAG/NARC
«
Reply #2 on:
May 28, 2008, 11:31:10 AM »
/signed
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overwatch
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Re: TAG/NARC
«
Reply #3 on:
May 28, 2008, 05:55:10 PM »
I have to side with the above. While the remote bombing run sounds REALLY neat, I think you are missing some depth of play if you cant coordinate TAG with friendly LRMs and such. Perhaps you could make that the secondary firing method for the TAG? One requires you to be immobile for 10 seconds and calls in an air strike. The other lets you run around painting targets and homing your friends missiles come in before your enemies bring you down.
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Seraph
Apprentice Dev
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Steven "Seraph" Grimm
Re: TAG/NARC
«
Reply #4 on:
May 29, 2008, 12:19:36 AM »
Quote from: overwatch on May 28, 2008, 05:55:10 PM
I have to side with the above. While the remote bombing run sounds REALLY neat, I think you are missing some depth of play if you cant coordinate TAG with friendly LRMs and such. Perhaps you could make that the secondary firing method for the TAG? One requires you to be immobile for 10 seconds and calls in an air strike. The other lets you run around painting targets and homing your friends missiles come in before your enemies bring you down.
That would be a neat idea. And if aeros don't have bombs yet you could add them to fulfill certain mission objectives - like bomb on a bunker and make the bunker almost indestructible for any other weapon. Something that might be added later on?
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Zeus6S
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Re: TAG/NARC
«
Reply #5 on:
May 31, 2008, 01:02:54 PM »
It could be implemented such that when a TAG user paints a target that all friendly units with LRMs are given a targeting box up in the sky (at the zenith of their indirect fire arc to hit that point.) By targeting that point with their reticle and firing, their LRMs effectively lock onto the painted target of the TAG and home in. The TAG designator would have to make sure the target remained painted until the LRMs hit, as they go wherever the designator points.
This makes combined arms easy and instant without having to do complex set up by selecting the TAG unit and then tying into his targeting, etc, etc.
My one concern with this is alleviated since the Clans appear to be lacking TAG on any of their units. This makes for a very cool and unique tactic/weapon for the IS to use and leaves the Clans with the Targeting Computer as their awesome shtick. This is perfect because it accentuates the mind set of both sides.
The Clans are all about personal honor and glory - A targeting computer only enhances your own capabilities.
The IS is all about combined effort and winning at any cost - TAG supports just that sort of tactic, combined fire.
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Seraph
Apprentice Dev
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Steven "Seraph" Grimm
Re: TAG/NARC
«
Reply #6 on:
June 01, 2008, 12:08:38 AM »
And here the reason why I want to be in control of a Raven
The TAG idea with skyboxed target is great. Wouldn't disturb the game too much and everyone seeing the box can fire away a salvo of rockets. Imagine the Raven standing someplace hidden TAGing an assault 'mech. 2 Mad Cats and a Catapult notice the target box hanging in the sky and fire away a salvo. That Assault will be in for a surprise just a couple of seconds later ... *rubs hands*
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Centron
Bondsman
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Re: TAG/NARC
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Reply #7 on:
June 01, 2008, 01:03:13 AM »
I agree with this idea, as anything tactical and teamworky (it is a word in my dictionary) equates as extremely badass in my book.
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Seraph
Apprentice Dev
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Steven "Seraph" Grimm
Re: TAG/NARC
«
Reply #8 on:
June 24, 2008, 04:31:52 AM »
Finally I got an idea how to implement TAG and NARC to MWLL. It just came to me after a MW4 Merc battle after I went to bed
Here my ideas:
Support Role of TAG
TAG is used to mark units with a target marker for LRM Boats (as an example). Your teams units will need some sort of selector in the User Interface. They select the Raven as their Targeting Guide for the LRMs. The warhead of the LRM will be programmed to find their target tagged by the TAG of the Raven. Rockets will fly in a ballistic way when fired from far off and in a straight manner when getting up close (much like in MW4 - but keep the ballistic way of flight as long as possible - makes it possible to stay in cover for longer).
Now for the Unit equipped with the TAG. As TAG is only a laser beam that marks the target for the rockets. Since it's just a low powered laser beam let it be a long range thing. Here an example: Let the Raven stick behind a cover as long as possible. The LRM Boat fires the rockets straight in the sky with no aim. The Raven waits a bit then jumps from his cover and marks the unit. The rockets stop ascending and start falling back to the target marked by the Raven. If it's a building the raven can take cover as soon as the rockets are heading for the building. If the Raven wants to hit a moving target he will need to stay out of cover as long as the target is moving. Of course the TAG laser has to be set on that target all the time. As soon as the rockets start hitting the Raven can jump back taking cover and run for another position to try again.
Support Role of NARC
Now we check the NARC system out. As the TAG it will work in much the same way for the LRM Boat. Maybe add a selector for using a NARC or TAG system on a friendly unit. That way you can attack 2 different targets tagged by the Raven. Maybe make the programming thing a timely process so you can't switch anytime you feel like it. Just for balancing purposes.
Now again how NARC could work. Instead of a laser a rocket is used to mark a unit with targeting data for the warheads. Unlike the TAG the NARC is a dumbfire rocket with low range. Make it 300m. You may remember that in MW4 the NARCs just went off after a few seconds. That should not be the case in MWLL. Something that has been NARC is doomed. Now the balancing factor: Get in close range to your target to set the NARC. But in addition to that you have to get out alive too. If you can't get out alive the NARC is rendered useless. Let's just say it needs the Raven around to keep sending data. This gives the Raven the opportunity to TAG something forever if the pilot manages to get out alive. After playing MW4 M I know that can be really tough when you try to pull that on an Assault unit. First you gotta get close enough and then even get out again
That's what I had in mind. Here a summary:
TAG
Long range (1000m ex.)
It's suffice to temporarily tag something when rockets are already flying
Can be used when rockets already on their way up
NARC
Low range (300m ex.)
TAGS forever if Raven stays close to it
TAG gets lost when Raven dies or gets out of range (500m or so?)
LRM Supports
Program their warheads to the support unit TAG OR NARC, not both
Programming takes some time (Request Data from Raven, Read Data to Computer, Flush Data on Rocket Warhead, Write Data, Ready)
LRM can be fired anytime
LRM already flying will descend when TAG Laser or NARC becomes active
«
Last Edit: November 10, 2008, 02:09:23 PM by Seraph
»
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Zeus6S
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Re: TAG/NARC
«
Reply #9 on:
June 24, 2008, 01:03:07 PM »
TAG has the same range as an IS Large Laser.
TAG should do all the Target Designation stuff. I think putting a targeting widget onto all friendly HUDs is the best way since there doesn't need to be all sorts of target friendly, hit T key, etc, etc. Just aim at the widget, fire LRMs, the system does the rest.
NARC should simply pull friendly missiles toward it when they get within like 30 meters of the NARC'd target. This will increase damage as most of the missiles should hit and make hitting smaller guys easier. Plus you can fire missiles around corners then.
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Seraph
Apprentice Dev
Star Captain
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Steven "Seraph" Grimm
Re: TAG/NARC
«
Reply #10 on:
June 24, 2008, 01:25:02 PM »
Quote from: Zeus6S on June 24, 2008, 01:03:07 PM
TAG should do all the Target Designation stuff. I think putting a targeting widget onto all friendly HUDs is the best way since there doesn't need to be all sorts of target friendly, hit T key, etc, etc. Just aim at the widget, fire LRMs, the system does the rest.
I was actually thinking of a programmable thing. Like hit some F key and get a menu with support units available. Hit another key to select the unit and get TAG and/or NARC as a selectable option. Once you hit the option the programming starts and seconds after you can fire at will (taken that something is actually tagged - but that can be managed with TeamSpeak or TeamChat).
Quote from: Zeus6S on June 24, 2008, 01:03:07 PM
NARC should simply pull friendly missiles toward it when they get within like 30 meters of the NARC'd target. This will increase damage as most of the missiles should hit and make hitting smaller guys easier. Plus you can fire missiles around corners then.
That would even balance it out a bit. Since you gotta at least fire in your targets vicinity and not only up the sky. The "up the sky" thing should still work for the TAG though.
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Mizzri
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Re: TAG/NARC
«
Reply #11 on:
June 24, 2008, 01:34:27 PM »
That all seems a little sudden. With LRMs travelling at close to, or above, Mach one (340.3 m/s) you're giving that missile less than a 10th of a second to pull a high-G turn to get on target and hit. Not possible imo. The TAG system lends a tremedous advantage, but should come with some risks to the tagging vehicle. Max range should be the same as the IS Large Laser, and you only suffer penalties for how fast the TAG vehicle is moving (bouncing across terrain makes it hard to laze the target). Any missles on a TAG system should automatically seek out that laser. So the laser needs to be on when they are fired, and needs to be on the target when they land, otherwise they hit the last known co-ordinates, meaning very likely a miss on a moving target.
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KorJax
Level Design (Reader of Stickies)
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Memento Mori
Re: TAG/NARC
«
Reply #12 on:
June 24, 2008, 05:39:55 PM »
I wouldn't be too worried about IS/Clan balance if the IS only get this stuff. I'm sure the Clans will have some of their own tricks up their sleeves with their "superior technology" and all that jazz
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Seraph
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Steven "Seraph" Grimm
Re: TAG/NARC
«
Reply #13 on:
June 24, 2008, 11:32:16 PM »
Quote from: Mizzri on June 24, 2008, 01:34:27 PM
That all seems a little sudden. With LRMs travelling at close to, or above, Mach one (340.3 m/s) you're giving that missile less than a 10th of a second to pull a high-G turn to get on target and hit. Not possible imo.
You might be surprises to hear that but rockets actually are able to do that. They are not limited to G forces as much as a human body. We would just fall unconscious and that's the end of the story. Check out this video for example:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aeqFvRZP2eI&feature=related
Just scroll forward to 1 minute. You will be astonished to see what the rockets are able to
It does reduce it's speed when turning but that is OK.
Quote from: Mizzri on June 24, 2008, 01:34:27 PM
Any missles on a TAG system should automatically seek out that laser. So the laser needs to be on when they are fired, and needs to be on the target when they land, otherwise they hit the last known co-ordinates, meaning very likely a miss on a moving target.
I think it could be possible for a rocket to target on the laser even after launch. Not to mention that the firing 'Mech might even stand behind a hill or inside a waterbed. The rocket would have to get into an angle where it could lock on to the TAG laser. So it's not impossible to fire the TAG after the rockets are set on their way. For the moving target: Yeah sure. At a certain point you can't remove the TAG anymore or the target will be missed since the rockets went for the last active coordinates. Maybe I didn't say that correctly in my post
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overwatch
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Re: TAG/NARC
«
Reply #14 on:
June 25, 2008, 03:31:56 AM »
Quote
With LRMs travelling at close to, or above, Mach one (340.3 m/s) you're giving that missile less than a 10th of a second to pull a high-G turn to get on target and hit. Not possible imo.
Actually, almost any modern guided anti aircraft missile is capable of doing that. Missile technology is frightening now. And I'm not even talking about the ship launched big guys or anything made cross continents. I'm talking about missiles made to launch from the shoulder or a backpack, or a truck, that can go from a standstill to acquiring chasing and blowing up any moving target in less than a second.
Now the point can be made, that maybe that is Losttech, but that's what things like streaks and TAG are all about, some resurgence of that good old fashioned murder magic. As for the believability of missiles behaving that way in game. Try the NARC or just a streak boated 'Mech out in Mech 4... Works and looks fantastic.
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“Let the word and the
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The Living Legends
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