3rd persion camera

[Defender]

Still none of your points convince me at all. Having such an option would NOT make the mod any worse. Instead it could even make your community base a bit bigger, but from what I see you want to keep it under "sim", where it obviously does not belong. I know it may sound harsh, but really - I do appreciate all your work on this mod, but claiming it's a sim with Unreal-like BA combat and weird behaving vehicles and aerotech isn't really a sim. I do realize most of you will disagree, but this is how it looks like currently. Having an option, I say it again, AN OPTION, would not destroy in any way the way the mod is played. Most of the servers would have 1st person turned on so it wouldn't be a big issue if a couple of people would be playing on a totally different server with external views turned on.

And yes, I do know the battletech universe, and no, 3rd person has nothing to do with wrecking immersion or anything. Especially, as mentioned before, it could be an option. Someone wants to be "super awesome elite" and play on full reality servers (if it can be said about battletech), it's fine. Someone wants to watch your really cool looking mechs and in the meantime kill some enemies - it's also fine. Everyone would play on different servers and no harm would be done to either sides.

I know I'm not going to change your opinion, albeit, your input is appreciated. I'd like to convey the actual reasoning behind the FFP-only mechanic implementation.

The reason we have it locked into the cockpit isn't just for the sim aspect. The first and foremost reason is situational awareness that would be technically impossible if you were actually in the mech. The gameplay balance this actually dictates is mainly Battlearmor. Their main advantages are speed, size and stealth. Being able to see where BA are all the time would imbalance that unit directly, considering you can just hit a key and negate one of their prime advantages, the fact that you never quite know where they are outside of your radar. With Third-Person, you can just hit the key, see where they are, and negate that advantage. This may be of no consequence for some, but it is outside the scope of our intended design.

Also, as you can see from playing, there are inherent issues with Third-Person, namely, the fact that you can fire while in third person, basically exploiting a flaw in the system we haven't had the time, intention or resources to fix.

Third-Person in Crysis is inherently flawed and in essence, it was never intended to be a feature of our game, optional or otherwise. This is a design decision and its current inclusion was a mistake due to rushing on release time constraints.

[(TLL)Sky_walker]

Course if anyone REALLY wants 3rd person camera, they could run a second copy of crysis on a separate machine and spectate themselves. I played around with doing just that for a little while, works great if you want to make a youtube ego-video,  so-so for actual fighting (you still need to look at your main screen to line up shots), and very well for situational aweness.

wow... this is great idea! And it even works! hahahaha
Only question is.... what for? Other than youtube... useless.

would not destroy in any way the way the mod is played.

Ok, noone want to say it, so let it be me:
it would spoil the gameplay.
Giving TP view for players would give them unfair advantage (you see where from you got hit, you have much wider field of view, you can look from beyond obstacles, and so on and so on... there's a long list), now as everyone want to fight on equal rights - the first-person players would have to switch to third-person, after 2 weeks they would hate the mod and quit it saying that it's 'a GODDAMN SHOOTER' as you put it well.
Majority of players prefer first person view.
Those who don't just didn't learn how to play in first person (no offense - I also hated it for first week - but now I love it!)... and this can be solved in simple way: train, train, train.


[edit] ok, Defender posted before me.

[Arbiter]

The reason we have it locked into the cockpit isn't just for the sim aspect. The first and foremost reason is situational awareness that would be technically impossible if you were actually in the mech. The gameplay balance this actually dictates is mainly Battlearmor. Their main advantages are speed, size and stealth. Being able to see where BA are all the time would imbalance that unit directly, considering you can just hit a key and negate one of their prime advantages, the fact that you never quite know where they are outside of your radar. With Third-Person, you can just hit the key, see where they are, and negate that advantage. This may be of no consequence for some, but it is outside the scope of our intended design.

This is the reason why the players who don't want to play in 3rd person themselves, would object to someone else playing in 3rd person. We're not trying to tell you how to have fun. The issue is that the 3rd person player would have an advantage over those in 1st person. So by playing it that way, you're forcing the majority of the community who want 1st person to either play in 3rd person, (which we don't want to do) or be at a disadvantage.

[(TLL)Siilk]

This is the reason why the players who don't want to play in 3rd person themselves, would object to someone else playing in 3rd person. We're not just trying to tell you how to have fun. The issue is that the 3rd person player would have an advantage over those in 1st person. So by playing it that way, you're forcing the majority of the community who want 1st person to either play in 3rd person, (which we don't want to do) or be at a disadvantage.

qft

[Tiger205]

I can totally see your point with all those advantages. Moreover, I agree with them. But all of you seem to be missing the most important part of my previous posts - if it was an option, and not a built in necessity, server admins would be able to choose whether they want or not to have 3rd person or 1st person on the server, not necessarly a fixed value for either 3rd person or 1st person. So basicly if you want to play on a pure "sim" server, you would join a server with 1st person forced on. And if you want to have a little fun running around in a 'mech, killing enemies and looking at all those other cool looking 'mechs, then you join a server with 3rd person as an option. It all comes down to having an option, not an option forced on all servers. It's nothing that has to be done for all of us, it's a matter of choice for players whether they want to play with 3rd or 1st person.

And to finish this off - the subject of "having fun" is touchy subject. Some prefer playing everything in 1st and that's the way they're having fun, while others prefer the 3rd person option. Without the second option, lot's of people are denied of "having fun".

I doubt the devs will change their minds just because of me, but I just wanted to show you (devs), that not everyone is happy with your decision concerning external views.

[Arbiter]

I don't think anyone would object to a 3rd person server side option so long as that's clearly indicated as on or off when the server is clicked on, and the server defaults off.

I'm not sure you would see a whole lot of servers playing 3rd person, but I have no problem with this. As I've said, have fun any way ya like. You can dance around pant-less singing I'm a yankee doodle dandy as long as it doesn't impact my gaming experience.

[Defender]

I can totally see your point with all those advantages. Moreover, I agree with them. But all of you seem to be missing the most important part of my previous posts - if it was an option, and not a built in necessity, server admins would be able to choose whether they want or not to have 3rd person or 1st person on the server, not necessarly a fixed value for either 3rd person or 1st person. So basicly if you want to play on a pure "sim" server, you would join a server with 1st person forced on. And if you want to have a little fun running around in a 'mech, killing enemies and looking at all those other cool looking 'mechs, then you join a server with 3rd person as an option. It all comes down to having an option, not an option forced on all servers. It's nothing that has to be done for all of us, it's a matter of choice for players whether they want to play with 3rd or 1st person.

And to finish this off - the subject of "having fun" is touchy subject. Some prefer playing everything in 1st and that's the way they're having fun, while others prefer the 3rd person option. Without the second option, lot's of people are denied of "having fun".

I doubt the devs will change their minds just because of me, but I just wanted to show you (devs), that not everyone is happy with your decision concerning external views.

We understand that not everyone will be appeased by our decision, but it stands that it will stay that way.

I wanted to note, that it's not just a decision about "having fun" as you stated, which is very broad and general term, and it's also not just about the balance I talked about earlier.

Despite the way you seem to think it works, it's not as simple as flipping a switch and making the world smile. If you've played with the current implementation that we accidentally left in, you'd see there are major flaws and exploits associated with the ability to use TPV. Being able to see and fire behind you is a major flaw that cannot simply be ironed out with the flip of a switch despite what everyone who argues in favor of TPV thinks. It was never intended to be implemented so there is no basis for the work required to fix the issues associated with having a detached camera.

It's not just balance, it's technical as well. Despite it being a design decision, there are other factors in play that make enabling TPV as an option more work than we'd like to do.

[KingLeerUK]

I feel compelled to make the following observation:
 
It has been my experience that the majority of players that hold up the "we want to use 3^rd person for screenshots" argument for 3^rd person never actually produce any screenshots in games I have participated in.  As a result, the "but the screenshots!" argument doesn't hold any water with me.
 
As an example, Operation Flashpoint and ArmA both have a 3^rd person option but it is automatically disabled for anything other than Cadet (read: kiddie pool with water wings) mode.  You will almost never find a server running with this mode allowed because everyone who really plays understands how unbalancing and unrealistic it is.  I personally think the same logic applies to MWLL.

[Defender]

As a result, the "but the screenshots!" argument doesn't hold any water with me.

"Think of the Children!"

[aresye]

Arma also has a very nice free-look feature, in which if you own a headtracker, you can keep your weapon pointing down range, be running forward, and at the same time be checking over your shoulder.  I'm sure the fact that our player is physically in the cockpit, is the main reason why a freelook option in the cockpit is not available.  I second that having a look-left/look-right, or freelook from within the cockpit, would be a nice addition.  Tactically it doesn't pose any advantage (marginal, if any), and I believe it's really necessary to get the full sim aspect of the game.  Frequently in MW2, I would just hold down the freelook while en route to a nav point, and just look around the cockpit.  Really adds to the immersion, and the crosshairs stayed in the same place.

[CWrebel23]

sorry for causing all the flaming! I just wanted to know if it was fesible, because thats how I always played MW4, 3rd person allowed me to see my pretty custom skins while giving a nice view of the enviornment (at the time). I hope it stays in because ofcourse, it helps show off the enviorment, and if ppl are going to be use this to exploit, shame on them. I dont own a console btw, never did, but I always found the 3rd person view interesting and comfortable, also it really reduces my lag

maybe just look into implementing it within the MW4 style, it wont game break, but it will also give some of us a different way of being able to interact with the game. 

[(TLL)Sky_walker]

aresye - you are entirely right. I hope that one day we gonna see a free look. One of the devs told that it's possible to add it, so... it could be great

[MatthewPryde]

hey, hate to sound like a broken record here, but haven't we had this little argument and dance like seriously 4 or 5 times already?

[aresye]

Regarding 3rd person view?  Yes we have.

Regarding free-look?  We have as well, but someone usually mentions it and then it gets lost in the thread.

Personally, having my view "locked" straight ahead in the cockpit doesn't feel natural, and as crazy as this sounds, it actually makes your head itself feel stiff after playing for a long time.  Having the free-look like ones in Flight Simulator X, MW2 (MechWarrior 2, not COD!  Who else is pissed they hijacked our abbreviation?), and other intensive sim games, really makes you feel like an actual pilot in the cockpit.  Even more so with headtracking.  I own a pair of HMD's, and if there one day is support in a mech game for headtracking I'll probably go into uncontrollable fits of joy.  MWLL, you could be the first!

Plus it would be so much better if I can just look out the right side of the cockpit to scan ridges, and not have to continuously swing my torso back and forth like the damn AI mechs in MW2.

Lastly, you devs put so much work into the cockpit models, and every mech is different.  Half of my time using a free-look will likely be drooling as I look at all the shiny panels and buttons around me.

[Flyingdebris]

would be neat if certain mechs could do the 180 arm flip to shoot targets behind them, or get the option to mount rear pointing weapons.  And a rear cam would be necessary for that.

I don't believe in third person though.  Never liked it. Invokes the feeling of controling an RC car rather than driving a real one.  I ever long to be in the eyes of the subject matter.