BA should NOT have PASSIVE PADAR!!!

[Profane Arbiter]

The thing is that you aren't effective teamplay-wise. It's a good way to earn the cash, but crappy one to help the team unless you are going TAG (last time I seen TAGging BA was in the first beta when you could get insane amount of points this way, so you are useless anyway). Killing a mech, even light, takes you minimum 3-4 times longer than it would if you'd sit in a mech cockpit, and attacking fresh mechs in 1v1 is death sentence unless it's LRM boat or a n00b. (although I killed few BAs with LRMs too so... it ain't that easy either). Also in most cases you don't absorb enemy units so they concentrate on important targets and you don't have a chance to destroy them in time.

BA is good for yourself - as a way to earn Cbills cheaply, not for the team.

You may be right, but consider that you're also risking much less. It seems to me that it's a cost/benefit calculation. How many points do I give up during my foray from the hangar, versus how many do I earn for the team.

[(TLL)Striker]

You may be right, but consider that you're also risking much less. It seems to me that it's a cost/benefit calculation. How many points do I give up during my foray from the hangar, versus how many do I earn for the team.

You are right that you "may" have a higher damage dealt to damage taken as a BA, but that doesn't even remotely get close to the stats you put out in even a light 'Mech. The only saving grace to a dedicated BA is that the other team may have someone else producing just as little as you, but if you compare your teams stats with you as a BA to the stats of a team that does not use BA I am 99.9% positive that even their worst player in a 'Mech is overall contributing more than a BA can.

There are all sorts of reasons for this, such as time to target, overall damage done and how much an enemy focuses on taking out a BA. If an enemy leaves a BA to do damage the payoff can be somewhat high, but if they take you out the second they realize you are there then even though you give them little along the lines of points, your damage ratio is not high enough before death to overshadow the use of any vehicle in the game.

Striker

[Brainwright]

It's not too unusual to see me at the rank of SaKhan when playing solely as a BA in low-population maps, so I think I have something to say on their capabilities.

The effectiveness of BA has a lot to do with where the big guys are fighting.  When fights are taking place on the wide, open Poptart Plains on the north side of Sandblasted, then BA are fairly useless.  Too little cover and too easily outmaneuvered.  On the marshes, in the first few minutes of the game, if a BA encounters mechs near the hangars by the dropship, then he might have a chance to lay on some C8 packs and do some real damage.

However, in games with high population, in games where people are not willing to bog themselves down in tight quarters, when people are just plain good, it's just a roll of the dice, really.  The BA still have the cards stacked massively against them.

One more little rule : in nearly all engagements, BA are not stealthy.  They've just got enough radar protection to take on the unaware.  That just makes them decent skirmishers.  I've had 'Mechs sit and watch me for five minutes, just waiting for me to come out of cover.  That target bracket is the death of BA.  I've often been shot behind soft cover as I'm trying to get eyes on a target (one classic example, I tried approaching a harasser through trees on Marshes.  I wanted to see which version he was, and I found out when I started receiving machine gun fire without even catching sight of him).

[Ishan]

[You are right that you "may" have a higher damage dealt to damage taken as a BA, but that doesn't even remotely get close to the stats you put out in even a light 'Mech. The only saving grace to a dedicated BA is that the other team may have someone else producing just as little as you, but if you compare your teams stats with you as a BA to the stats of a team that does not use BA I am 99.9% positive that even their worst player in a 'Mech is overall contributing more than a BA can.

No offense.. but at the moment i could care less if my team wins. I am playing Living Legends to have fun. And while i agree that i won't make as many points in an Elementalsuit i simply have to say: I don't care.

If there would be some real wars going on, with regulated Points and such.. maybe a galactic map we fight for... then it might matter if someone goes BA only.. and even then it would be a tactic decision to deploy a couple BA as opposed to deploy Mechs. But at the current point... what does it matter if my team wins or loses? I rather have balanced sides with enough action to entertain myself. Two teams which are almost equally matched so the fights won't push one side back into their hangars... is more preferable to me as a small message after a hour stating my side has won.

Maybe if we would get some bonus "C-bills" for the next round and the teams wouldn't be split up... or if there would be some server collecting our statistics and making us level based on overall experiance, having people start with higher C-Bills into a fresh round. Then maybe i would understand the importance of the team winning.

But the way it is right now... There is nothing wrong with people in Elementals to go hunting without a Mech, as long as they have fun. I enjoy doing it... and especially on extremity its a lot of fun to run around as BA... making you float almost through the whole map by combining the kickback of the PPC with the Jumpjets.

One more little rule : in nearly all engagements, BA are not stealthy.  They've just got enough radar protection to take on the unaware.  That just makes them decent skirmishers.  I've had 'Mechs sit and watch me for five minutes, just waiting for me to come out of cover.

Thats the purpose of the Suits. To harrass Mechs or enmass a couple of them to take down Mechs with combined fire.  The way i use my BA is by trying to sneak past the fighting forces and take on the missile boats and "snipers". Those who are usually to focused on their long range view to even pay attention to the small BA next to them.

In many maps its pretty hard to sneak a Mech past the infighting big ones. Especially if you play 15 vs 15. There are enough Big guys around to take you out in a Mech before you even reach the boats. But in an ES you can just sneak past them. Few don't pay attention to the small BAs and if the Map plays in your favor... like Marches or Gravity (if you only walk in the nightside)

And yes...i am playing a lot Puma Prime (even if i can afford bigger mechs)... and i have killed a fair share of BAs simply because some C3 Mech was around and i could simply fire PPCs or Flamers at their location without even seeing them and killing them with Splash damage.

But then again... i don't really get those people who play sitting ducks when they notice someone is firing PPCs at them. But yes, i would prefer if that target box would be smaller for the Suits, even though i suppose that would make them even easier to hit with Splash weapons.


I think the BA works fine the way they are, at the moment. And helping your units by tagging a couple Narcs or a TAG laser along while you go hunting for the Backrow of the enemy... or on that lavamap... i prefer to take a flamer along. Nothing as bad as jumping into a fight between two mechs and running behind the enemy with your flamer heating up his mech on an already hot map

I just wish i could buy Infernos for the SRM luncher.

To improve the BA, in my opinion would mean to remove them from starting people and forcing them to BUY a BA. For starting with one, they are fine. Anything better, like Heavy BAs or the likes... should require you to buy them.

That said.. i wouldn't mind being able to buy upgrades, not just new weapons, to the BA, making it a more dangerous foe for the people who dedicate themselves to playing a BA. And those upgraded BAs should be incompatible with piloting a mech.

[BraylonCWM]

yea i'm still not sure how we got on the subject of BAs not being effective. I mean in the end it IS still only an armoured infantry unit...how effective do you really want them to be? It's a personal choice to take them, and for most people that do it's a matter of being a fun challenge. I don't think anyone expects to do fantastic in BA all the time, and truthfully the only time they should really be crazy effective is if there are 3-5 of them facing a lone mech or vehicle. Look at contribution this way though, i've played the last 3 matches starting out in a BA, i worked up to the thanny, and then the MK2 B....in each of those matches my score by itself made up 25-30% of the overall score and there were at least 10 people on my team. So starting out as BA and taking 15-20mins to work up to 130k C-bills or more didnt hurt me or my team, plus i had FUN doing it.  If you want to talk about ineffective players start bitching at the tarters and the boat whores. I get a chuckle every time i play because i'm brawling like a crazy man and outscoring by 2-3x the other players on the map.

Just a few thoughts though, i'm trying to be less inflammatory with my posts. BA are fine, they function OK, that's how it should be...yes the nades not sticking every time like they are suppose to is annoying but hey not every perfect toss is rewarded with perfect execution in real life either. The radar thing works fine too IMO...it'll all work out in the end, enough of the devs play the game to know what works and what doesn't, they are competent, have a little faith.

Finally, kill the poptart nubs every chance you get. That's the least mechwarrior thing about the whole mod...SO DAMN GHEY! die tart monkeys die! BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA

[Profane Arbiter]

You may be right, but consider that you're also risking much less. It seems to me that it's a cost/benefit calculation. How many points do I give up during my foray from the hangar, versus how many do I earn for the team.

You are right that you "may" have a higher damage dealt to damage taken as a BA, but that doesn't even remotely get close to the stats you put out in even a light 'Mech. The only saving grace to a dedicated BA is that the other team may have someone else producing just as little as you, but if you compare your teams stats with you as a BA to the stats of a team that does not use BA I am 99.9% positive that even their worst player in a 'Mech is overall contributing more than a BA can.

There are all sorts of reasons for this, such as time to target, overall damage done and how much an enemy focuses on taking out a BA. If an enemy leaves a BA to do damage the payoff can be somewhat high, but if they take you out the second they realize you are there then even though you give them little along the lines of points, your damage ratio is not high enough before death to overshadow the use of any vehicle in the game.

Striker

Well lets take it to the extreme. Lets say one entire team goes only BA, and the entire other team has all assault mechs, with a random distribution of some of them being good, ok, or crappy vs BA...which team wins? I don;t know the answer since I don't know how many points a BA gives up.

I've been playing with the idea of using lighter assets with a better risk/ reward quotient. While I'm not as enamored with the AC20 Osiris in the early game as some folks, what if one team decided to break out of the hangar with only AC20 Osiris's halfway through the match when the majority of the opposing forces were heavy and assault mechs? Those lil guys aren't giving up nearly as many points as the heavies and assaults, and they're difficult to hit; running circles around their large slow moving adversaries, periodically plugging them with AC20 rounds. If your team is losing, that could be a good way to turn the tide of battle!

[Cujo]

No idea how we got on the tangent, but BA can make a good mess of things and allow the higher damage mechs and vehicles to move in and get a few pot shots in before the other team is done shooting at the BA.  They then give few Cbills for a kill and so make a good distraction if they can last long enough.  Then if the enemy switches focus to the BA's team, they can start hogging off the enemy rear armor until they're forced to deal with them, another opening for the BA's teammates.  Personally I just play BA because it's fun, then when it ceases to be, I'm usually around the cbills to nab a high end medium or my ERPPC, light gauss warhammer or thanny.


Back on Topic, I'd say radar range is about right, I'd like to later see some scout BA choices with stealth armor and such, but that's for a long ways down the line.

[(TLL)Siilk]

No idea how we got on the tangent, but BA can make a good mess of things and allow the higher damage mechs and vehicles to move in and get a few pot shots in before the other team is done shooting at the BA.  They then give few Cbills for a kill and so make a good distraction if they can last long enough.  Then if the enemy switches focus to the BA's team, they can start hogging off the enemy rear armor until they're forced to deal with them, another opening for the BA's teammates.  Personally I just play BA because it's fun, then when it ceases to be, I'm usually around the cbills to nab a high end medium or my ERPPC, light gauss warhammer or thanny.

QFT